Preparation for power outages

[bcavalli]

This past few days, during this heat wave, we have experienced our first short term power outages over 7 years. I have always tried to cover all my bases when this type of emergency may happen. However, I was curious if anyone can think of anything I have missed. I would really appreciate the input.

I currently run a full Apex system. It's not setup yet for power outages other than a 12v backup for notifications. (I've got to get off my butt and setup that portion of my Apex). I have a 1500VA UPS that runs the Gyre and two WP 10s. I also have bagged (primed) RO water in the freezer, just in case we experience an extended outage. I keep a battery operated temp probe in the stand to measure the tanks temp if the power goes out as well.

The Apex notifies me of the outage, so if I'm remotely close to home, I can fire up the gas generator that is run through the UPS. When the power went out the past two times everything worked perfectly. I was notified by Apex immediately and my power heads continued running until the power resumed.

However, I could use some advice.

Should I bag mixed salt water rather than just RO water. Since it has a low freezing point would it melt slower than RO water? Making it more effective in keeping the temp down?

My biggest fear is, if we lose power for an extended amount of time, how can I keep the tanks cool? I can foresee the house is going to get hot quick and I can only run a fan so long from the basement before I deplete the cold air downstairs. What other low power cooling options are you guys using if this happens?

Is there anything I'm missing or any other ideas or thoughts?

Thank you for taking the time to offer advice or suggestions!

 

[crew]

Wow - you are way more prepared than I am.

Freezing salt water isn't a great solution for several reasons. For starters, the freezing point of seawater is lower than freshwater, like you said. What that means is it will melt FASTER than freshwater. Think of it this way. Would ice melt faster on a 50 degree day or a 100 degree day? The 100 degree day is the obvious correct answer because it's much hotter (or really, it's much higher about the freezing point of water).

The second reason to not freeze salt water is you can't freeze salt. Instead, the process will go as follows: Your salt water, no matter how well you mix it, won't be even in terms of salinity - you are going to have parts in the bag that are ever so slightly saltier than other parts. What will happen is the water that is the LEAST saltiest in the bag will freeze first, and in the process, squeeze the salt crystals out, giving you normal ice. Salt doesn't fit well into the ice crystal structure. As more and more of the water freezes, the remaining water in the bag will get saltier and saltier (and the freezing point will continue to go down) until you hit a salinity that your freezer can no longer freeze. At this point, you will have a block of ice with several extremely salty pockets of water. If you were to use this to help keep your tank cool, there is a good chance you could introduce 5 gallons worth of salt with only a gallon of water (based on where those pockets of salt where in the block of ice.

Long story short - keep freezing fresh water

 

[bcavalli]

Crew;1039953 wrote: Wow - you are way more prepared than I am.

Freezing salt water isn't a great solution for several reasons. For starters, the freezing point of seawater is lower than freshwater, like you said. What that means is it will melt FASTER than freshwater. Think of it this way. Would ice melt faster on a 50 degree day or a 100 degree day? The 100 degree day is the obvious correct answer because it's much hotter (or really, it's much higher about the freezing point of water).

The second reason to not freeze salt water is you can't freeze salt. Instead, the process will go as follows: Your salt water, no matter how well you mix it, won't be even in terms of salinity - you are going to have parts in the bag that are ever so slightly saltier than other parts. What will happen is the water that is the LEAST saltiest in the bag will freeze first, and in the process, squeeze the salt crystals out, giving you normal ice. Salt doesn't fit well into the ice crystal structure. As more and more of the water freezes, the remaining water in the bag will get saltier and saltier (and the freezing point will continue to go down) until you hit a salinity that your freezer can no longer freeze. At this point, you will have a block of ice with several extremely salty pockets of water. If you were to use this to help keep your tank cool, there is a good chance you could introduce 5 gallons worth of salt with only a gallon of water (based on where those pockets of salt where in the block of ice.

Long story short - keep freezing fresh water

Great advice! Thank you. That makes sense, I'll stick with the primed RO water. Any other ideas or suggestions?

 

[bulkrate]

Battery powered air pumps & a pack of limewood airstones, rechargeable cells and a solar charger from Fry's can save the day if you're on a tight budget by keeping the water moving & aerated. Make sure you've got a non-controller driven means to check temperature!

If going whole-hog, a generator (mind you that you get one rated to output a true 60Hz sine-wave to avoid possible A/C motor issues) & an automatic transfer switch for the circuit(s) that run your tank could make it a non-issue.

 

[rdnelson]

Oh you had to go there didn't you!!!!

Pulled into the driveway to find the power out at the house. Jerk!

 

[jennm]

LOL Rich.

You can float bags of ice in a tank to cool it (doesn't have to be RO - just don't dump melted icewater into the tank.

Batter pumps/airstones - in a pinch, stir or circulate water manually. No flow = no new oxygen, that's the big killer in a power failure.

A generator is a great insurance policy. 2 years ago the shop went dark for 2 days with a widespread power failure and the generator and some fans over the sumps, saved all the livestock and frozen food in the shop.

Jenn

 

[bcavalli]

rdnelson99;1039978 wrote: Oh you had to go there didn't you!!!!

Pulled into the driveway to find the power out at the house. Jerk!

LoL, I kind have the feeling this may become the norm during this summer.

 

[rdnelson]

Bcavalli;1039995 wrote: LoL, I kind have the feeling this may become the norm during this summer.

What? Me calling you a Jerk??? No I would never do that. Hehehehehe

 

[bcavalli]

Lmao! I know that would never happen.

 

[bcavalli]

JennM;1039980 wrote: LOL Rich.

You can float bags of ice in a tank to cool it (doesn't have to be RO - just don't dump melted icewater into the tank.

Batter pumps/airstones - in a pinch, stir or circulate water manually. No flow = no new oxygen, that's the big killer in a power failure.

A generator is a great insurance policy. 2 years ago the shop went dark for 2 days with a widespread power failure and the generator and some fans over the sumps, saved all the livestock and frozen food in the shop.

Jenn

Great points Jenn! We got a generator and probably will never use it. Lol.


Aside from ice is there any other means of low power consumption cooling?

 

[stickman]

one word Generac

 

[sewer urchin]

Oh you had to go there didn't you!!!!

Pulled into the driveway to find the power out at the house. Jerk!

Would that be it considered irony if an electrician has no power?

But seriously, sorry to hear.

 

[reefkeeper]

A UPS is extremely important. I keep my APEX and one Tunze pump on my UPS in the event of a power flicker or power outage. The UPS will keep the Tunze running for well over 10 plus hours just for water movement. My basement stays cool all the time so I really don't have any temp issues in the summer except for the winter. If the power goes out in the winter I do have a 54K BTU vent free gas fireplace 10 feet away from the tank and it heats my entire basement.

Just to tell you how important it is to have a APEX on a UPS. Just recently I pulled the APEX off the UPS so I could perform some maint. on the UPS. Well and behold during this time we had a bad storm here in North Georgia and the power flickered for just a few seconds. That was just enough to corrupt my APEX and PM1 and after days and weeks of exchanging emails and phone calls with Neptune Systems, they finally provided remote access in to my APEX only to find out the base unit and pm1 units got trashed during the power flicker and they wanted me to RMA the units. The units were sent and they charged me $92 for repairs and it took several emails expressing my grief before I could even get them to remote in and concur the units were even bad.

Folks make sure you have your APEX on a UPS, otherwise it may cost you lots of $$$ in the long run. It’s worth every penny.

 

[catgirl29]

What UPS do you have? I was looking at them yesterday and the better ones can get pricey.

 

[bcavalli]

This is the one I'm using. Other than my two recent power losses I haven't calculated or tested the runtime. If I remember correctly it was on sale for around $99.

 

[enderg60]

From my experience here is what you can get, what it will get you and what it will cost you.

-Battery powered aerators. This will keep things going for up to a full day without issues. Cost usually $15 per unit, use one per 50 gallons.

-Heavy blankets. For winter times a bunch of blankets over the tank will keep it warm for hours. Cost $.50 at thrift store

-Bag of ice. For summer this will keep temps down really easily just make sure the bag is sealed, but be careful not to over do it. Cost $2 at any gas station.

-Car inverter. You can run it off your car and keep small power heads and fans running as long as you have gas. Cost $20

-UPS. These are good for brown outs and short outages. Best used on small power heads, fans and controllers to keep them from shutting off. Cost $50-200 depending on size. (bonus, one of these on your cable modem and wifi router will keep your internet on while the power is out too) Also the VA they are rated at is the same as watts. You want to look at not the watts they can deliver but the watt-hours. That is how long they can deliver a certain amount of watts. If they are rated at 1000 watt hours (or 1 Kwhr) you can run something 1000 watts for an hour, or something 100 watts for 10 hours.

-Gas Generator. If you have a big system this is a must have. Size it by adding up the running watts of the things you want running, pumps, fans, heaters, lights(if you can afford a larger generator), then multiply by 2 and get a generator rated for that wattage. FYI they are rated for peak watts not running watts and your pumps have a peak startup power larger than the running power which is why you do a x2. With this option you will want a LOOOONG extension cable and a few power strips to make sure the generator is far away(because they are loud as crap) and can plug in everything you need. Cost $200-600.

-Wired Generator. - Same as above but sized for your whole house, usually run of natural gas and wired to your main electrical panel with a switch that activates it whenever the power goes out. Cost $4000-10,000.

 

[reefkeeper]

Bcavalli;1040113 wrote: This is the one I'm using. Other than my two recent power losses I haven't calculated or tested the runtime. If I remember correctly it was on sale for around $99.

 

[bcavalli]

EnderG60;1040114 wrote: From my experience here is what you can get, what it will get you and what it will cost you.

-Battery powered aerators. This will keep things going for up to a full day without issues. Cost usually $15 per unit, use one per 50 gallons.

-Heavy blankets. For winter times a bunch of blankets over the tank will keep it warm for hours. Cost $.50 at thrift store

-Bag of ice. For summer this will keep temps down really easily just make sure the bag is sealed, but be careful not to over do it. Cost $2 at any gas station.

-Car inverter. You can run it off your car and keep small power heads and fans running as long as you have gas. Cost $20

-UPS. These are good for brown outs and short outages. Best used on small power heads, fans and controllers to keep them from shutting off. Cost $50-200 depending on size. (bonus, one of these on your cable modem and wifi router will keep your internet on while the power is out too) Also the VA they are rated at is the same as watts. You want to look at not the watts they can deliver but the watt-hours. That is how long they can deliver a certain amount of watts. If they are rated at 1000 watt hours (or 1 Kwhr) you can run something 1000 watts for an hour, or something 100 watts for 10 hours.

-Gas Generator. If you have a big system this is a must have. Size it by adding up the running watts of the things you want running, pumps, fans, heaters, lights(if you can afford a larger generator), then multiply by 2 and get a generator rated for that wattage. FYI they are rated for peak watts not running watts and your pumps have a peak startup power larger than the running power which is why you do a x2. With this option you will want a LOOOONG extension cable and a few power strips to make sure the generator is far away(because they are loud as crap) and can plug in everything you need. Cost $200-600.

-Wired Generator. - Same as above but sized for your whole house, usually run of natural gas and wired to your main electrical panel with a switch that activates it whenever the power goes out. Cost $4000-10,000.

Great information Ender!

 

[bulkrate]

Great list, EnderG60.

Totally forgot about the car inverter/extension cord option - if you let your corals have a dark day and only run a subset of powerheads, skimmer and possibly your chiller/heater/apex you can run off a decent car battery for a good 10-14 hours even without having to run the engine.

Of course, this fails utterly the moment you have to drive somewhere or if you're relying on it to cut over automatically on loss of utility power when you're not home.

 

[bcavalli]

EnderG60;1040114 wrote: From my experience here is what you can get, what it will get you and what it will cost you.

-Battery powered aerators. This will keep things going for up to a full day without issues. Cost usually $15 per unit, use one per 50 gallons.

-Heavy blankets. For winter times a bunch of blankets over the tank will keep it warm for hours. Cost $.50 at thrift store

-Bag of ice. For summer this will keep temps down really easily just make sure the bag is sealed, but be careful not to over do it. Cost $2 at any gas station.

-Car inverter. You can run it off your car and keep small power heads and fans running as long as you have gas. Cost $20

-UPS. These are good for brown outs and short outages. Best used on small power heads, fans and controllers to keep them from shutting off. Cost $50-200 depending on size. (bonus, one of these on your cable modem and wifi router will keep your internet on while the power is out too) Also the VA they are rated at is the same as watts. You want to look at not the watts they can deliver but the watt-hours. That is how long they can deliver a certain amount of watts. If they are rated at 1000 watt hours (or 1 Kwhr) you can run something 1000 watts for an hour, or something 100 watts for 10 hours.

-Gas Generator. If you have a big system this is a must have. Size it by adding up the running watts of the things you want running, pumps, fans, heaters, lights(if you can afford a larger generator), then multiply by 2 and get a generator rated for that wattage. FYI they are rated for peak watts not running watts and your pumps have a peak startup power larger than the running power which is why you do a x2. With this option you will want a LOOOONG extension cable and a few power strips to make sure the generator is far away(because they are loud as crap) and can plug in everything you need. Cost $200-600.

-Wired Generator. - Same as above but sized for your whole house, usually run of natural gas and wired to your main electrical panel with a switch that activates it whenever the power goes out. Cost $4000-10,000.

Ender, just curious if you need an inverter or ups to run in between a gas generator and our aquarium equipment. I had planned on (in the event of an extended outage) running the generator to the ups and then out to all critical equipment. Somewhere I read that was the preferred process but is it necessary? I'm defiantly not an electrical guy, thanks for taking the time to explain all of this.