Pump for skimmer

[1percula]

I purchased a Rio 1400 pump to supply a Octopus Recirculating Skimmer. I have noticed the pump changes rate as the water level changes in the sump.

As most of you know, this makes it difficult to maintain the water level in the skimmer. Is this normal or does anyone know of a pump that stays consistent regardless of the water level in the sump that pumps 300 to 400 per hour?

Or is this just the perils of having an external skimmer?

 

[smoothie]

An auto top off would fix it. I don't have experience with that skimmer so break in and tuning advice will be soon to come from others

 

[william1]

ATO keeps my sump at one constant level at all times. No need for skimmer adjustment.

 

[acroholic]

If you can, get an ATO like the others said. It is one of those devices that after you buy one, you wonder how you ever got along without it.
Dave

 

[percula]

+4 ato

 

[budsreef]

There is something I'm not understanding about this. ATO's are good for a number of reasons and I highly recommend them so I don't disagree with what everyone is saying, but why would a supply pump change flow rate depending on the level of the water? The ATO should be connected so it adds water to the return section, but that typically is not where the pump for the skimmer should go.

Where are you putting the skimmer pump? If you have a sump then it should go in the overflow section of the sump which shouldn't ever have a change in level. Can you describe your set up a little?

 

[percula]

Budsreef;361421 wrote: There is something I'm not understanding about this. ATO's are good for a number of reasons and I highly recommend them so I don't disagree with what everyone is saying, but why would a supply pump change flow rate depending on the level of the water? The ATO should be connected so it adds water to the return section, but that typically is not where the pump for the skimmer should go.

Where are you putting the skimmer pump? If you have a sump then it should go in the overflow section of the sump which shouldn't ever have a change in level. Can you describe your set up a little?

Also, back pressure changes on the output such as water level can have a dramatic effect on the skimmer. For example our large frag tank, the skimmer is skimming wetter and wetter throughout the day as the water level decreases when I take out water, and returns to normal dry skimming after I refill at the end of the day.

 

[acroholic]

Big D;361427 wrote: <span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS">Bud, I'm assuming the level of water where the pump is must be changing quite a bit throughout the day for him to see a noticeable decrease in volume to the skimmer. Usually a pump will pump less volume if you put it in a shallower level of water, it has to do with the amount of pressure applied to the inlet of the pump by the body of water it's in.</span>




<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS">David</span>

I may be saying the same thing here, but a pump's head height seems to increase the greater the water depth it is in.

For example, it seems the pump has to work less to pump to a 6' height sitting in two feet of water than in one foot of water.

 

[acroholic]

percula;361444 wrote: Also, back pressure changes on the output such as water level can have a dramatic effect on the skimmer. For example our large frag tank, the skimmer is skimming wetter and wetter throughout the day as the water level decreases when I take out water, and returns to normal dry skimming after I refill at the end of the day.

That sounds odd.....I would think that as sump level drops, your feed pump is pumping a bit less, so the skimmer would run dryer.

My skimmer is external to my sump with a feed pump in the sump. For any given skimmer setting, the higher the water level in the sump, the higher the foam column (wetter) because the feed pump is pumping a it more water thru, so the actual water level in the skimmer will be a bit higher, effectively raising the height of water in the skimmer, and skimming wetter.

 

[1percula]

I appreciate the responses. I just took a look at another website and apparently I am not the only one with this problem.

One Reefer suggests that I mark the sump level and track it over a 24 hour period. Setup a supply of freshwater, with a return pump in it. Set a standard timer on it and track how long it takes to get the water back to the original level. Then set the timer to run the pump everyday for the time period that it takes to replenish the level of water in the Sump.

I think I'll give it a shot unless somewhere here can tell me why not.

 

[budsreef]

That sounds like another way to do an ATO. Can you describe how you have your sump set up? I still think you should look at your set up and put the skimmer in a chamber that has a constant level already.

1PERCULA;361489 wrote: I appreciate the responses. I just took a look at another website and apparently I am not the only one with this problem.

One Reefer suggests that I mark the sump level and track it over a 24 hour period. Setup a supply of freshwater, with a return pump in it. Set a standard timer on it and track how long it takes to get the water back to the original level. Then set the timer to run the pump everyday for the time period that it takes to replenish the level of water in the Sump.

I think I'll give it a shot unless somewhere here can tell me why not.

 

[1percula]

Skimmer is too large to fit into the sump.

 

[budsreef]

I figured that, I'm trying to understand where you are putting the pump that feeds the skimmer. I think you will get some better suggestions if you describe your set up, especially the sump area.

 

[1percula]

The return pump is in the middle section of my sump. I just got back from Creations and I am going to get an electronic ATO. There is no simple fix for this problem. I just thought that the pump would not have variances in such a low volume of water. I was wrong.

I have been having trouble with water level changes anyway. If I add water I have to wait for the system to settle to see if I too much water in the system or too little. I guess I could sit there and wait, but sometimes I add water, then go elsewhere instead of waiting for it all to level out. For some reason, it takes my skimmer about 10-15 minutes to adjust to the water level.

If I forget and walk away, it can sometimes overflow. Making a water mark on the sump is not a cure all, because it does not take into account how much water is in the skimmer/overflow/etc. Thanks for the info. I'm buying a ATO.

 

[weaglereefer]

Do you have baffles in the sump? The section the skimmer receives water from should not have a varying water level at all. It could be a very simple fix. Do you have any pics?

 

[oil_fan]

au01st;361636 wrote: Do you have baffles in the sump? The section the skimmer receives water from should not have a varying water level at all. It could be a very simple fix. Do you have any pics?

I don't know about that. My sump has 3 sections. The first where the water from the main tank drops in, the second chamber where my skimmer is and the last where my return pump is.

The only way I could see my middle chamber not having varying water levels if the overall water level was below where the baffle is but in my case it's almost always above it. If I let it drop below that point, then I'm only hours away from the return pump section not having enough water in it.

But yes on the suggestion of an ATO. I set mine up for less than $50. It was probably around $40 for the pump and the sensor. The rest is just air line tubing.

 

[weaglereefer]

Right, but why would the skimmer pump be in that section? I have mine in the section where the water enters the sump, and then a bubble trap before the return pump section. The water level doesn't vary because of the baffles.

 

[cr500_af]

1PERCULA;361489 wrote: I appreciate the responses. I just took a look at another website and apparently I am not the only one with this problem.

One Reefer suggests that I mark the sump level and track it over a 24 hour period. Setup a supply of freshwater, with a return pump in it. Set a standard timer on it and track how long it takes to get the water back to the original level. Then set the timer to run the pump everyday for the time period that it takes to replenish the level of water in the Sump.

I think I'll give it a shot unless somewhere here can tell me why not.

The only flaw I see with that is that the water level is still going to change throughout the day.... much the same as if you manually topped it off at the end of the day. It'll drop through the day and then "get fixed" when the pump adds the prescribed amount.

The water level would stay more consistent if it was on a timer that, say, added 10% of your daily evap 10x per day, so that it never got far from normal... but by the time you got a timer that would handle that you could have bought several ATOs.

Heck, if you want to build one I've got an extra float switch you can have. Then you just need an old extension cord you can cut up and a small pump. The instructions for the DIY ATO are on melevsreef.com.

 

[oil_fan]

au01st;361643 wrote: Right, but why would the skimmer pump be in that section? I have mine in the section where the water enters the sump, and then a bubble trap before the return pump section. The water level doesn't vary because of the baffles.

Well in my case, I have an all in one unit. No separate pump. Even when I had a skimmer that had a separate pump, I had the whole thing in the middle section.