question about cycling process

[carpenter981]

This is my first salt tank (60g). I bought some live rock from a buddy of mine that is getting out of the hobby for a while. I put that in with live sand. Ive been monitoring the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/ph/salinity levels of the tank for a week and a couple days now and Ive seen no sign of ammonia, etc...

My question is, since I bought LR from my buddy that was in his tank for months, will I experience the typical cycling process (ammonia, nitrite spike)?


levels are

pH - 8.0
ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 0
salinity - 1.024

Ive gotten these same readings for about 10 days now since I filled the tank up.

any help would be appreciated, thanks

Jason

 

[fish scales2]

Without bioload you are likely to not see any spikes. I would add pure ammonia or a dead shrimp to start the process.

No fish in system yet?

 

[carpenter981]

When he gave me the rock he failed to tell me there was a damsel and 2 hermit crabs in the bin with it. I wasnt planning on putting him in the tank for a while but I was doing some spray painting in the room he was in inside the bin and I forgot to cover it up. I checked it out a little later and could see the paint chemical film on top of the water in the bin so I decided i should probably put him in the tank...

so yes there is a Kupang Damsel in there along with 2 hermit crabs...

 

[fish scales2]

Nice, you have not seen a spike so I would say you can swap out the Damsel with another appropriate fish, one of close to same size. If you do not pull him from the system he will most likely be extremely aggressive towards any new tank mates.

You will likely see some diatom algae start if you already have not.
How much live rock was put into the system and was it kept submersed in water during transport?

 

[hhughes]

I'm not an expert, but here's my $.02

It depends. If the rock was out of water for any period of time, there "should" be a cycle. Stuff invariably dies when parameters change suddenly, and they most likely did.

That being said... when I first started out, I bought my rock from an LFS. I was a good little beginner and tested ever third day for a month. Nothing happened. The LFS guy's best guess was that my cycle happened so fast that I never had a chance to get any readings; after 6 weeks on his recommendation I added some cleanup crew and finally got some nitrate readings after a bit.

10 days is not very long; I would give it another week or two. Don't get in a hurry. If nothing continues to...not happen, proceed to the next step (add a tiny bit of life, or begin fishless cycling, whatever your preference is).

Just remember, patience is the key to being successful with saltwater.

 

[jennm]

I don't see the need to "cause" ammonia if you got well cured rock from an existing setup. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Just let it be, when you're ready to add livestock, do it slowly, just as you would with any setup. The rock will be able to handle gradual introductions of livestock without any spikes, just as an established tank can. Patience is the key.

Jenn

 

[carpenter981]

Im not exactly sure how much live rock Ive got. My guess would be 40-50 lbs or so. It was submerged during transport.

Whats the best way to go about catching this little guy if he is aggressive towards new fish?

Im trying to be patient but patience is not one of my strong points.


Thanks for the help, its much appreciated!

 

[jef4y]

JennM;572907 wrote: I don't see the need to "cause" ammonia if you got well cured rock from an existing setup. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Just let it be, when you're ready to add livestock, do it slowly, just as you would with any setup. The rock will be able to handle gradual introductions of livestock without any spikes, just as an established tank can. Patience is the key.

Jenn

+1 millon!

If you start with true, liverock from an established tank, you aren't likely to see a cycle. I bought all live, liverock from multi-year established tanks and kept it wet for the 20 minute drive to my tank. Never experienced one bit of ammonia spike.

As Jenn says, add livestock gradually. It will give you a lesson in patience and time for the ecosystem to adjust itself to the bioload.

 

[jennm]

Patience is a virtue we all need to learn in the hobby. It's never good to add too much at a time, regardless of how mature the tank is.

The live rock itself *is* bio-load. The microbial life and small fauna eat and poop to keep the bacterial bed alive. Adding ammonia or a dead shrimp or whatever to "rot" and cause an ammonia spike is, IMO counter-productive, and will draw out the length of time of letting a new tank settle, unnecessarily.

If it was uncured live rock, the die-off from the rock as it cured, would cause a spike while it found its equilibrium again, and IMO nothing needs to be added to that either - but in the case of uncured rock with die-off, you most likely will see a spike because of the sudden load of dead stuff that the bacteria have to process, all the while the bacteria are trying to rebound from their own dying off.

JMO - that's how we've always done it, and until recently I never saw it recommended to force a spike out of cured rock. I just don't see the reason to undo something, only to have to wait for it to sort itself out first, when it was already fine to begin with.

Jenn

 

[carpenter981]

Alright well I think Im gonna monitor the levels for a few more days and if there is no change Im gonna add a fish...

If the damsel seems to be aggressive towards what I get, what is the easiest way to go about catching him?

 

[dakota9]

Wait and get a fish you know you'll want to keep......


Damsels aren't for everyone, and had to catch

 

[jennm]

carpenter981;572975 wrote: Alright well I think Im gonna monitor the levels for a few more days and if there is no change Im gonna add a fish...

If the damsel seems to be aggressive towards what I get, what is the easiest way to go about catching him?

Drain the tank down 3/4 of the way and he'll be easier to get.

OR borrow a fish trap. That's hit-and-miss.

OR try to catch him at night when he's "sleeping" if you know where his hidey hole is.

Most folks try different things then eventually end up draining most of the tank with a lot of curse words thrown in for good measure. :shout:

 

[jef4y]

If you only have the damsel, try and trap him before you get anything else. That way, if it takes you 2 weeks to trap it, you're not freaking out while it's tearing apart your new $100 fish.

Not sure on the success rate of the 'bottle trap' with damsels, but it was cheap and worked great for my flame angel when everything else failed...

 

[carpenter981]

thanks for all the help guys...

I tested all my levels again yesterday and they all ready the same (no ammonia, nitrites or nitrates) I have brown diatom algae on the sand bed and some of the rocks. The damsel seems to be doing fine, no obvious signs of being stressed.

Can I consider it cycled, or should I wait a little longer still?

Jason

 

[gnashty]

carpenter981;574362 wrote: thanks for all the help guys...

I tested all my levels again yesterday and they all ready the same (no ammonia, nitrites or nitrates) I have brown diatom algae on the sand bed and some of the rocks. The damsel seems to be doing fine, no obvious signs of being stressed.

Can I consider it cycled, or should I wait a little longer still?

Jason

I would wait the few extra days its going to take you to catch the damsel....then you should be ok

 

[nanonano]

JennM;572907 wrote: I don't see the need to "cause" ammonia if you got well cured rock from an existing setup. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Just let it be, when you're ready to add livestock, do it slowly, just as you would with any setup. The rock will be able to handle gradual introductions of livestock without any spikes, just as an established tank can. Patience is the key.

Jenn

This^

I bought LR from Aquarium Arts. It was expensive but the guy swore I would not have a cycle. He said I could add livestock immediately. I still waited a few days and tested but never got anything.

I added livestock slowly and never had a problem.

 

[jcook54]

You should be good to go, slowly. I've got a fish trap you can borrow if the 2L bottle doesn't work. However, I've had more success with the 2L bottle than the fish trap so give that a go if you haven't already.

 

[jennm]

Bill, any cured live rock that's moved promptly, you won't have a cycle. Shouldn't need to "pay extra" for it.

Jenn

 

[jennm]

I've heard of folks paying extra for "cured" rock which then had to be shipped. Well in shipping, there is die-off as the rock is typically shipped moist. Shipping it IN water would preserve the fauna but be cost-prohibitive. Unless it's back in water within a few hours, there will be die-off significant enough to cause a spike - and as such, have to be re-cured. So shipping "cured" rock defeats the purpose.

Truly cured rock that is moved promptly, and back in water within a couple or three hours, shouldn't cause a spike, period.

Uncured rock, whether it's moved promptly or shipped etc., does need to be cured, and WILL cause a spike.

Jenn