Raj - Lanthanum chloride - your ballpark here

[dawgface]

What are your opinions on Lanthanum chloride for use in reef aquariums for Po4 reduction. Melev claims it is in regular use in commercial aquariums.

 

[ghbrewer]

Recently saw a thread about this on Reef Central, was wondering the same.

 

[dawgface]

ghbrewer;1010960 wrote: Recently saw a thread about this on Reef Central, was wondering the same.

First opinion was snake oil but I can't find evidence to refute the use nor claim. Both in its use (commercial) and the effects (reported) in home aquariums.

 

[ghbrewer]

If I remember correctly, it works by binding with phosphates in the water column and precipitates into something that can be filtered or skimmed out. It is primarily used in pool chemicals. The only thing that I could see being an issue would be a build up of the precipitate over time. In pool filtration, the water passes through a sand filter that is back washed periodically. In a reef tank, it seems that it could build up in rock work and/or the sand bed.

 

[dawgface]

ghbrewer;1010972 wrote: If I remember correctly, it works by binding with phosphates in the water column and precipitates into something that can be filtered or skimmed out. It is primarily used in pool chemicals. The only thing that I could see being an issue would be a build up of the precipitate over time. In pool filtration, the water passes through a sand filter that is back washed periodically. In a reef tank, it seems that it could build up in rock work and/or the sand bed.

Melev is recommending to administer in the skimmer itself to negate the. Claims the binding is near immediate so the skimmer that which is bound right away. Obviously because of which you are really only treating the water within the skimmer. Having said that I think he also suggest the dose (varies) to be spread over the course of a few if not many minutes to cover the volume.

 

[skriz]

DawgFace;1010956 wrote: What are your opinions on Lanthanum chloride for use in reef aquariums for Po4 reduction. Melev claims it is in regular use in commercial aquariums.

http://www.reefaddicts.com/entry.php/548-What-does-Phosphate-look-like"> Lanthanum chloride</a>[/QUOTE]

It's a great option depending on the levels. It's not something that's generally automated, though, so if you have another option (gfo), I recommend that first.

For the massive reef tank at the steinhart aquarium, I did two huge gfo reactors and it's kicking some major donkey! AND, nobody has to dose anything to boot. Some aquariums have more strict policies than others and it's difficult for them to use (not allowed to buy it), so gfo is the only option.

Also, LaCl3 won't take your PO4 levels down as far as GFO can take them.

 

[seth the wine guy]

I've had nothing but great results using it sparingly over the past several years. I've used it to get high PO4 spikes under control then GFO to maintain levels. I have a renewed interest in its use since I will soon have to bulldoze my sump room. (For those who don't know, I had a sump room built on to the back of my house for the DT on the inside.) While my sump room is demoed to make way for other improvements, I will have to temporarily run minimal equipment and know I will need ways to "cheat". This is high on my list of cheating materials. I'm wondering where there's a source to buy it in bulk without the hokey marketing labels and 10,000% markup when you slap a label on it with a pretty picture of an Acro on it.
I would also like to explore using it on a dosing pump on my next build. If anyone has a bulk source, I'm down to go in on a BIG buy of it.

 

[russ-iv]

im with skriz on this one. if you can go gfo, that would be the preferred route as you know what media is binding your phosphates and how to remove it from the system entirely.
if you have a giant commercial aquarium i can see why they would use it being that they would need a ton of gfo and a reactor the size of a 5-10 gallon bucket.
if you have persistent po4 issues, a few rounds of gfo/phosgaurd can suck out enough phosphate to keep things in balance for a while.
the only way i could get po4 under .02ppm is to maintain traceable nitrate.

not sure what you are trying to solve going the suggested method.

 

[seth the wine guy]

Russ-IV;1054206 wrote:

not sure what you are trying to solve going the suggested method.

I can't speak for anyone else, but, I'm immediately trying to solve keeping a tank alive without its sump and manifold that fed my reactors until I can reconstruct the structure it's housed in. I probably stock more GFO by weight than most people do salt, but it won't do me any good without a reactor to run it through.

From what I understand, the key to using LaCl3 is a monster skimmer to keep O2 levels high while pulling out the "binded" PO4. When I remove my sump and other equipment, my skimmer WV is probably equivalent to 10-15% the WV of the DT. So, I have no fears there.

 

[russ-iv]

Seth The Wine Guy;1054240 wrote: I can't speak for anyone else, but, I'm immediately trying to solve keeping a tank alive without its sump and manifold that fed my reactors until I can reconstruct the structure it's housed in. I probably stock more GFO by weight than most people do salt, but it won't do me any good without a reactor to run it through.

From what I understand, the key to using LaCl3 is a monster skimmer to keep O2 levels high while pulling out the "binded" PO4. When I remove my sump and other equipment, my skimmer WV is probably equivalent to 10-15% the WV of the DT. So, I have no fears there.

so if you have no sump you will be going closed loop until it is constructed?
im assuming you are using an external return pump like an iwaki or dolphin?

how much does your po4 climb daily?
nitrate levels?

sorry just want to see if there is an easy alternative for you.

 

[seth the wine guy]

The "closed loop" will consist of a Mag 9.5 sitting in the DT feeding the skimmer. (It's an external) I won't miss any flow generated from the returns I will no longer have. I've always run (4) MP40's on the 120g. I can dial them up as needed.

I don't measure PO4 daily so I couldn't say what a daily swing is. (Tell me you don't test PO4 daily!) I've tested PO4 18 times since April. Low was .04 and high was .13 with an average of .08. The .13 was a spike due to a flipped breaker while out of town and no lights or skimmer for a few days. There was a little die off... I use a Hanna bench top photometer for PO4 testing.

I haven't measured NO3 in recent memory. I don't measure NO3. I grew tired of testing weekly for something that was either 0 or &lt;.2ppm for three straight years. I thought I was getting bad Salifert tests since I was always showing zero or close to it. So, I brought samples to be tested with a real fancy photometer. (Same one the GA Aquarium uses.) My results were confirmed on two different occasions so I will only test now if there's a problem in the tank.

The more I think about all this and type it, the more I think I'll just setup a new sump and run some plumbing even if it is a PITA. Luckily I've got a 48" MRC Bio-sump sitting around ready to go. I just didn't want all the crap sitting on the floor in the middle of the room. I just don't see how I'll be able to maintain my "Big 3" for more than a few days without a Ca Reactor given the size of my colonies. Thinking back, I believe my Ca reactor was offline for no more than 3 days one time and it dropped my KH 20%. A full week and it was full on Alk crash mode. All that said, I would still like to limit the number of reactors going. GFO being one.