RDSB or not

ghbrewer

Active Member
Market
Messages
1,337
Reaction score
0
I am getting ready to setup a new tank and was wondering what everyone's opinion was on remote deep sand beds. To start, the display tank (150 gallons) is going to be setup as a mixed reef tank with live rock and a 2-3" sand bed that will be cleaned and replaced as necessary. The tank drain will be plumbed through a 75 gallon tank with a 6" DSB that will be stocked with benefitial sand sifting critters (bristle worms, snails, and some hermits for any leftover food that might make it down there). In turn that tank will drain to a 40 gallon long sump. The sump will be configured so that the water draining from the refugium/RDSB will enter a skimmer compartment, then travel through a bubble trap into a properly lit chamber that will house chaeto, through another bubble trap, and then into the return chamber. I am planning on running around 1500 gph through the return system. Primary parameters are going to be controlled through the use of a quality calcium reactor, sea chem prime, and chemi-pure elite. I will most likely be tying in a 30-60 gallon frag tank into this system as well.

I am planning on running the RDSB without lighting, in the hopes that the critters will work harder at cleaning and keeping the sand bed turned over. Do you all see any reason that this may come back to bite me in the you know what, especially later on down the road? What if I decide to turn the DT into primarily SPS dominate later on?
 
I am familiar with what the appropriate gradation of sand should be for the DSB as well as flow rates.
 
Just curious what any of you may have encountered in the past? Especially those of you who have well seasoned systems.
 
If you ever want to go SPS dominant i would go the other way. I am considering pulling all the sand out of my tank and going mostly SPS myself. The only problem is i would have to get rid of my wrasse and gobys! Choices!
 
Curtismaximus;930465 wrote: If you ever want to go SPS dominant i would go the other way.

Are you suggesting no sand in either the refugium or DT? Without the DSB, I will have to rely solely upon nutrient export since there will be no conversion. No matter what, I will be running the skimmer, chaeto, and performing regular water changes. I was just thinking that the RDSB would provide me the additional benefits of nutrient conversion through gas exchange (No3 to No4).
 
ghbrewer;930472 wrote: Are you suggesting no sand in either the refugium or DT? With the DSB, I will have to rely solely upon nutrient export since there will be no conversion. No matter what, I will be running the skimmer, chaeto, and performing regular water changes. I was just thinking that the RDSB would provide me the additional benefits of nutrient conversion through gas exchange (No3 to No4).

Both, from my research and the opinions of a few SPexperts anything that can trap nutrients is a bad thing. That being said i have seen plenty of SPS with a DSB. I just think the risks outweigh the benefits by far.
 
I've never had the space for one, so I have no anecdotal experience to offer.

Don't forget about their substantial added buffering capability as well.

a>
 
McPhock;930476 wrote: I've never had the space for one, so I have no anecdotal experience to offer.

Don't forget about their substantial added buffering capability as well.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/deepsandbeds.htm">http://www.wetwebmedia.com/deepsandbeds.htm</a>[/QUOTE]

That's funny, that is the exact article that made me decide to pursue this effort.

Edit: At least consider going this route, I just do not want it in the main display.

Edit: The article at the link below was really informative (and convincing as well):

[IMG]http://www.reef-eden.net/DSBs.htm">http://www.reef-eden.net/DSBs.htm</a>
 
FWIW, I've heard sand sifting stars eat all the actual beneficial organisms in a DSB.

a>
 
Yeah I have heard that as well, not planning on any sand sifting stars.

Probably going to be limited to the following sand sifting/scavenging inverts:

1. Bristle Worms
2. Pods (All sorts)
3. Nassarius Vibex, Cerith, & Planaxis Snails
4. Florida Fighting Conch
5. Bristle Star
 
I doubt that you'll be limited to those inverts, all kinds of critters that you don't intentionally introduce will wind up in there. I don't think I'd even worry about stocking it at all.

I'd like to see a RDSB with a good 2' sand bed in a plumbed brute!
 
I realize that there will most likely be other critters that end up in there, these are just the ones i am going to intentionally introduce to make sure that the sand is turned over properly.

It's funny that you mention the brute concept, I have actually been considering going that route, just not a 2' deep bed. This would be interesting, but since I have the 75 gallon tank, I figured I should probably just use it (especially since it will fit neatly underneath the tank). I am still on the fence as to how deep I want to go with the sand bed, I imagine it will ultimately come down to cost versus benefit.

My sump will be placed in a sump room behind the tank that I am going to incorporate into my basement remodel.
 
This is the tank I was considering using if I went the brute/tub route:

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/tuff-stuff-products-heavy-duty-oval-tank-110-gal">http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/tuff-stuff-products-heavy-duty-oval-tank-110-gal</a>

Edit: [QUOTE=][B]JDavid;930546 wrote:[/B] Wait, you're using a 48x18 tank for the DSB?[/QUOTE]

Yes sir!
 
I would think that less LxW and more depth would be more bang for your buck.

Edit: How much height do you have in the cabinet?
 
The impression that I got from the articles that I have read was that there were benefits to be had from surface exposure to flow, but I may have misinterpreted this part. I know that the primary action is diffusion from higher concentrations in the water and lower concentrations in the sand bed, but I thought that a larger surface area is also important.

Edit: Here is an excerpt from one of the articles that peaked my interest:

"In relation to DSB's,the depth of the substrate should be in excess of 3" to effectively induce the anaerobic conditions essential for the breakdown of NO3 to free nitrogen gas to a really beneficial level. Various depths have been tried from 2" - 16"+ in some commercial applications, however no real benefits have been shown in 'all' cases as to whether more or less is any definite advantage. the current trend is commonly between 4 - 6" in depth for aquarium applications. Indeed, having 'too' much depth in relation to the wrong type of grain size can and will lead to compaction due to the weight of the sand layers above. Although some people use split beds of differing grain size, it is not essential (in fact its pretty pointless, as a well populated bed will see this all mixed together over time any way). as long as both areas fall within the boundaries of what our sand dwellers will accept as liveable conditions. It is just as easy if not preferable to go with a single grain size throughout the entire depth. My own personal preference is Aragamax for the main bulk of the bed, topped off with a fine layer of Aragamax grand Bahama as a rubble layer as this type includes a portion of crushed shell fragments. In relation to SSB's or (shallow sand beds) a 2" layer has also been seen to give good all round results if used in shallower tanks where the loss of display space effectively rules out the use of a full DSB with a 6"+ depth. SSB's work in exactly the same fashion as DSB's and the same rules should be applied, the only drawback is a more limited degree of nitrate reduction due to the reduced anaerobic layer and population. In many cases a combined method is used, whereby the main tank contains a 2" SSB whilst the main DSB is moved to the sump or a remote tank."

Source: http://www.reef-eden.net/DSBs.htm">http://www.reef-eden.net/DSBs.htm</a>

While this does not address the top surface area issue, it does provide some knowledge as to depth.
 
I see what you are saying it just seems to me that the space this DSB will take + the cost of sand restricting the actual depth of the bed name the 75g too big.

How much height (in ") do you have in the space where you want the DSB. You said you wanted it in the cabinet?
 
I have not built the stand yet, so as much as I need I guess (within reason, and not raising the tank so high that I have to use a step ladder to vacuum the tank). If it looks like it will require a lot of height, I will just place the RDSB in the sump room with the sump, there it will have as much room as needed.
 
LOL! I think I know where this is heading...

My sump is a 40 long, so it is the same width as the 75g. I just thought it would make sense that they match up. Plus i figured why not just go as big as i can.
 
Back
Top