RDSB question

cosigner

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I want some expert opinions on something and where better to ask than here?

I am building a 40B with a 34G sump. I was reading a lot on RDSB and decided to go this route. I saw some really nice, white, play sand at toys-r-us and was wondering if I used play sand in the display, and an aragonite remote deep sand bed in my sump, would I still have sufficient pH buffering? The remote sand bed will be approximately 18"x20" and 6-8" deep.

The reason I wanted to go with the play sand in the display is because of the uniform size, how nice and white it looked, and it would save me about $70 on extra aragonite. I just don't want to give up any buffering abilities by going this route which is why Im hoping the RDSB will suffice!
 
Anyone? Lol...

Edit: Also, if it's any help,the sand was called Snow White sand. It is washed and sized and was labeled as pure silica.
 
Any reason behind that? I've somewhat researched using play sand and it seams like there are a lot of people who are very happy with it, and this sand inparticular. I was thinking that I could get the aesthetics of beautiful white sand, while reaping the benefits of an aragonite RDSB.

Edit: ...and at $7 for 50lbs, it will save me around $70 in my display.
 
no one was answering your post so I figured I would chime in with my two cents...lol I guess I would just want as much ph buffering as possible and I'm not big into using Materials not designed for the trade. too many variables in my opinion.
 
Heath brings up are really good point that I am sure many experienced aquarists share, that is you really should try and steer clear of anything that is not made expliclty for aquarium use. This is a very common sense approach to reef keeping, in that you don't always know if what you are getting will cause more harm than good to your aquarium. With that said, there are many people who have used play sand in their DTs and said that they liked it. While there are others that have said that it ended up being more of a pain in the a** than anything else.

Just as it seems you are aware, silica based sands will provide little to no buffering capacity, as they contain little to no calcium carbonate. As stated in another thread, I would not rely on a DSB to make up for bad husbandry or less than optimal PH swings and calcium levels. These items should be controlled through the use of regular testing and purpose built, tried and true practices such as using a calcium reactor or dosing regimen.

Things to consider:

The majority of silica based sands available to consumers is man-made and is likely to contain a large amount of impurities. While silica based sands won't likely release silicates into the water column in and of itself, there is a good chance that there might be silicate in the packaging due to the production process as well as other things such as heavy metals. There are ways to test silica sand for impurities such as silicates and heavy metals, but IMO the whole thing is just not worth the trouble unless you are just dead set on using it. Crushed coral and aragonite substrates are taken directly from the ocean and are much less likely to contain contaminates that could be detrimental to your aquarium and its inhabitants. While it is more costly, you are not gambling so much with what you may be putting into your system.

Other issues with using silica based sands have to do with the particle shape and size. Silica based sands are more jagged and sharp (more easily traps detritus) than their aragonite and crushed coral alternatives and tend to be. While a few independent studies have shown little difference in the capabilities of silica and calcium based sands to culture beneficial bacteria, calcium based sands are proven through years of successful use. In regards to particle size, silica sand is typically of a much finer gradation and when used in a display tank can easily be blown around by power heads (especially in high flow environments like those that house SPS).

No matter what substrate you use (if any at all), proper husbandry and maintenance is a must. I would also suggest you invest in a good clean up crew (CUC), as they will assist you in maintaining your substrate. I also believe in siphoning of the sand bed during each and every water change, replacing any substrate that is removed with fresh substrate. I have heard from reputable sources that you should expect to remove and replace around 25% of your substrate every three months, theoretically replacing all of it over a year.

Of course, all of this is what I have encountered in my own research and heard from others. I am definitely not an expert and do suggest you do your own research prior to incorporating anything into your own system.
 
ghbrewer;935038 wrote: Heath brings up are really good point that I am sure many experienced aquarists share, that is you really should try and steer clear of anything that is not made expliclty for aquarium use. This is a very common sense approach to reef keeping, in that you don't always know if what you are getting will cause more harm than good to your aquarium. With that said, there are many people who have used play sand in their DTs and said that they liked it. While there are others that have said that it ended up being more of a pain in the a** than anything else.

Just as it seems you are aware, silica based sands will provide little to no buffering capacity, as they contain little to no calcium carbonate. As stated in another thread, I would not rely on a DSB to make up for bad husbandry or less than optimal PH swings and calcium levels. These items should be controlled through the use of regular testing and purpose built, tried and true practices such as using a calcium reactor or dosing regimen.

Things to consider:

The majority of silica based sands available to consumers is man-made and is likely to contain a large amount of impurities. While silica based sands won't likely release silicates into the water column in and of itself, there is a good chance that there might be silicate in the packaging due to the production process as well as other things such as heavy metals. There are ways to test silica sand for impurities such as silicates and heavy metals, but IMO the whole thing is just not worth the trouble unless you are just dead set on using it. Crushed coral and aragonite substrates are taken directly from the ocean and are much less likely to contain contaminates that could be detrimental to your aquarium and its inhabitants. While it is more costly, you are not gambling so much with what you may be putting into your system.

Other issues with using silica based sands have to do with the particle shape and size. Silica based sands are more jagged and sharp (more easily traps detritus) than their aragonite and crushed coral alternatives and tend to be. While a few independent studies have shown little difference in the capabilities of silica and calcium based sands to culture beneficial bacteria, calcium based sands are proven through years of successful use. In regards to particle size, silica sand is typically of a much finer gradation and when used in a display tank can easily be blown around by power heads (especially in high flow environments like those that house SPS).

No matter what substrate you use (if any at all), proper husbandry and maintenance is a must. I would also suggest you invest in a good clean up crew (CUC), as they will assist you in maintaining your substrate. I also believe in siphoning of the sand bed during each and every water change, replacing any substrate that is removed with fresh substrate. I have heard from reputable sources that you should expect to remove and replace around 25% of your substrate every three months, theoretically replacing all of it over a year.

Of course, all of this is what I have encountered in my own research and heard from others. I am definitely not an expert and do suggest you do your own research prior to incorporating anything into your own system.


Thank you very much for such an explanatory response. No, I'm not particularly dead set on using this stuff, just entertaining an idea. Everything going in this tank will be new and I'm not willing to risk problems on a $70 short cut. I'll read a little more about it, but in the end I doubt ill go with it.

Thanks again...
 
NP. What did u decide to do with the sump?


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This is an interesting article to read, but make sure you read the end as there are a couple corrections.

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/r_toonen9.html">http://www.reefs.org/library/article/r_toonen9.html</a>

As for the sump, I was waiting for three different people on Craigslist to respond to my emails pertaining to the dimensions of the dumps they were selling and never heard anything. So, I have the "sump" in question sitting under my stand with a 10" tall 10" diameter pvc coupling off to one side that as of now is housing my return pump. If I decide to keep it in place I have to make a bible trap for the return and the rest of the area will be a fuge.

I'll post a picture when I get off work. I MAY get a 29G or a 20L and just divide it though. It would be clean and more efficient, I think.
 
Apparently my phone made some crazy corrections.... that was supposed to read that I will have to make a bubble trap if I decide to keep this sump. The coupling will serve as a point for the water to spill over from the fuge and the return sump handles the rest.
 
I have used pure Calcium Carbonate (not a product aquarist), I have not had any problems whit my first DSB .....
 
Here is the sump... ghbrewer

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