Reef knowledge refresh: if you knew then what you knew now...

[siege]

Okay, so I've been out of the reef hobby since 2008, though I've had fish tanks of some variety most of my life. The ichthyologist I worked under in the early 90's wouldn't keep reefs because "it's too hard", though that was before the internet as we know it was a thing.

I had more info in 2007 when I joined ARC. But not enough, and the sad tale of my 55g reef plays out on these very forums in some now very old posts.

Now that I'm getting back into the reef hobby - and with a 50g AIO, to boot, it seems, and not the 20g I was originally planning - I've been doing my research, trying to get my learn on and back up to current, and I've realized a lot of things have changed - especially since I started really paying attention to the modern thinking on planted freshwater tanks, which I wrongly thought was effectively settled science.

So! For you all who have been doing it during my long absence from the reef-keeping, what's a couple of the things you wish you'd known "back when" that you know now? Or, what are some things you knew back when, that recent experience, new information or new methods of reef-keeping has made you change your mind about? The things you'd do different today if you had it all to start over again fresh, "if you knew then what you know now"?

Because starting fresh is what I'm doing, and I'm here to learn. I'm pretty sure I know the basics and then some, but the problem there is, I don't know what I don't know, including how much of what I think to be true may be wrong.

 

[myvwrock]

Spend a little more now for good equipment or equipment that might be a little over kill, so hopefully you don't have to re buy it later.

One thing that can make this hobby so expensive is that people will buy a crappy protein skimmer for $150, just to buy the $400 one a year later because the first one is junk.

 

[shanepike]

A few that come to mind for me:

1. Don't buy stuff until you know you need it. I have so much equipment in my closet that I was sure I'd need and is just gathering dust now.
2. In the same vein, don't do things to manage nutrients (dose, add macro algae, start a refugium. etc.) until nutrients actually need to be managed.
3. You can save a ton of money buying used equipment, but you have to be careful.

 

[ichthyoid]

1- consistent conditions yield consistent results. This is mostly why many people are successful while others are not.
2- the above ‘can’ be accomplished manually, semi automated, or mostly automated (there are no automated glass cleaning devices, yet).
3- satisfaction/joy are directly proportional to the amount of time you are able to actually spend viewing/benefitting from your tank, automation helps with this a lot!
4- the degree of joy is also highly dependent on how well your tank’s inhabitants are doing, and affects how long you may likely stay involved with this hobby.
5- patience has an immense impact on all of these ^ !
6- All systems cost money, with more automation being the most costly.
7- decide what your goals are, then calculate what the costs are in both time and money, then multiply by 1.5 (or better, 2x). If you are still determined, then welcome back!

FWIW-
I am also a big fan of Tropic Marin’s product called All For Reef. It’s an all in one chemical additive. No calcium reactors or two part/three part additives required. Just dose as instructed and run manual tests regularly, and ICP/Mass Spectrometer tests periodically, to monitor your parameters/chemistry.

 

[shanepike]

☝ This is incredible insight.

 

[shanepike]

Having the tank where I see it most of the day has been so much better than I ever would have realized.

 

[siege]

Spend a little more now for good equipment or equipment that might be a little over kill, so hopefully you don't have to rebuild later.

One thing that can make this hobby so expensive is that people will buy a crappy protein skimmer for $150, just to buy the $400 one a year later because the first one is junk.

Yannno... I WAS looking at the $150 Tunze skimmer (when I thought I was going to be in a 20gallon) and thinking, "Well... it's Tunze, right? And has to be better than a $60 skimmer, right?" But, I was raised not to buy cheap tools, and I hate doing/buying things twice.

In this case, I'm bound and determined to have a 'fuge (I love reverse-lighting them, gives me something to look at at night... especially since I'm a night-owl who works all day, and after dark is the majority of my viewing time. Seems to be some consensus that a skimmer may not be needed if I have a fuge, depending on design anyway? If the truly uh-MAZING deal I'm being offered includes one, depending, I'll probably go ahead and snap it up. If not, I'll pass on a cheap one then, and just plan on the better investment when the tank bioload is starting to increase, maybe keep an eye out here for one that will work with my setup.

Tho, honestly, I don't plan on having but maybe 6 - 10 fish in the tank, total: a mandarin, for sure, maybe mated pair; green clown goby; neon goby; firefish goby; royal gramma basslet; and maybe a few Banggai cardinals if (thats a big if) I eventually decide I want to deal with their feeding requirements and want some schooling fish floating about. I suspect I'll get a clown just to have something actively swimming in the tank, but... meh? So, in theory I should at least be able to safely get away without a skimmer while I save for a better one for a while until bioload starts to increase.

IIRC, I should be able to get an idea if my 'fuge is handling the load based on TDS readings, yes?

A few that come to mind for me:

1. Don't buy stuff until you know you need it. I have so much equipment in my closet that I was sure I'd need and is just gathering dust now.
2. In the same vein, don't do things to manage nutrients (dose, add macro algae, start a refugium. etc.) until nutrients actually need to be managed.
3. You can save a ton of money buying used equipment, but you have to be careful.

I can get behind this for sure. I listed out everything I think I need in an Amazon list, and now have built another one (attached here), though I do believe the tank I'm purchasing will include a few of the items on this list like wave pumps and heater, there's an RO/DI unit on offer as well, etc.. I'm going to borrow the UPS I currently have on my currently quiescent 3D resin printer (shame none of the resins are reef safe ), but should probably get a dedicated one eventually. Extra submersible light, small pump and bulkhead is for the 'fuge, and I believe I have offers of buckets from another ARC member. Other than that, aside maybe from the mounts for my lights (and the other items on offer to me), I don't think there's anything on this list I don't absolutely need?

As for #2, good advice. I do want to get the fuge set up right away, but obviously if there's no nutrients in the tank, chaeto will just die off, making a whole different problem. I do want this tank to be as low-intervention as possible.

#3? That's precisely what I'm doing now. It seems I have a great offer from a kind club member who is hooking me up with everything I need, or very nearly so. Fantastic advice tho, given how many deals there are available from people upgrading or downsizing, etc., just here on the club forums. I was considering FB marketplace for some items, but generally speaking, the hassle of traveling way across town to pick up a part of unknown quality from a random stranger isn't worth the savings, especially not when I factor in what I make per hour vs. sitting in traffic.

 

[siege]

1- consistent conditions yield consistent results. This is mostly why many people are successful while others are not.
2- the above ‘can’ be accomplished manually, semi automated, or mostly automated (there are no automated glass cleaning devices, yet).
3- satisfaction/joy are directly proportional to the amount of time you are able to actually spend viewing/benefitting from your tank, automation helps with this a lot!
4- the degree of joy is also highly dependent on how well your tank’s inhabitants are doing, and affects how long you may likely stay involved with this hobby.
5- patience has an immense impact on all of these ^ !
6- All systems cost money, with more automation being the most costly.
7- decide what your goals are, then calculate what the costs are in both time and money, then multiply by 1.5 (or better, 2x). If you are still determined, then welcome back!

FWIW-
I am also a big fan of Tropic Marin’s product called All For Reef. It’s an all in one chemical additive. No calcium reactors or two part/three part additives required. Just dose as instructed and run manual tests regularly, and ICP/Mass Spectrometer tests periodically, to monitor your parameters/chemistry.

1.) I feel that, as I find it to be true with planted freshwater tanks as well. Which is why I want to mess with it as little as possible.
2.) Not sure how much more I can afford to automate except ATO? My wife supports my passion for the hobby, and I'm not precisely poor by any means, but I do have two kids and a disabled spouse, so I need to keep to a budget over time. A lot of the automation stuff I have seen is really spendy.
3 & 4.) 100% with you on that.
5.) Absolutely, which is why I'm intending to exercise as much of it as I can.
6.) Yep, I see that.
7.) Nothing will change my determination. I've been literally dreaming (which I don't do) of another reef for 16 some years.

I'll have to look into the All For Reef. The more I can minimize what I have to mess with, the better.

Having the tank where I see it most of the day has been so much better than I ever would have realized.

Which is why it's going in my office, where I spend 8 - 12 hours a day 5 days a week, and another 3 - 4 hours a day or more on weekends.

 

[siege]

A few that come to mind for me:

1. Don't buy stuff until you know you need it. I have so much equipment in my closet that I was sure I'd need and is just gathering dust now.

Some examples of the stuff you don't use? I'd definitely like to know what to avoid, both now and later down the road,

Whups, I forgot to attach the list earlier when a guest arrived. Some of these things (heater, RO/DI, wave pumps, maybe some others) I think I'll be buying from the seller of the tank I'm getting, a few others I'll acquire from other club members yet, but, I think all of it's pretty essential?

 

[kodock]

Nutrients aren’t bad, and skimmers are just extra.. not a waste, just a bonus.

An RODI, backup heater/titanium heater, power outage inverter that runs off cordless batteries is a must.

Spend the extra money on a digital milwuakee refractometer.

Surface agitation is key.

More water volume means less aggressive parameter swings and less water changes, after you’re cycled and established.

Sps is a whole different ballgame.

You don’t need radions or the most expensive equipment to function. This hobby is really managing water chemistry. You can test and dose by hand.

 

[siege]

Nutrients aren’t bad, and skimmers are just extra.. not a waste, just a bonus.

An RODI, backup heater/titanium heater, power outage inverter that runs off cordless batteries is a must.

Spend the extra money on a digital milwuakee refractometer.

Surface agitation is key.

More water volume means less aggressive parameter swings and less water changes, after you’re cycled and established.

Sps is a whole different ballgame.

You don’t need radions or the most expensive equipment to function. This hobby is really managing water chemistry. You can test and dose by hand.

Yep, I think I'm past the "nutrients are the devil!" phase, at least where my freshwater is concerned.. Just gotta monitor it well and manage it a bit before things get out of hand. Going to be a learning/adjustment curve for saltwater, I'm sure. Inexperience and impatience led me to more than a few unnecessary water changes in the past, no few of which caused me to lose livestock. Definitely don't want any repeats of that. My prior reef... was a rushed set of circumstances with some unfortunate handicaps, and I'm determined not to repeat the same mistakes.

A power inverter that runs off cordless batteries, you say? I've been thinking of buying an electric backpack leafblower, which would include a lot of voltage... are there any specific brands or anything? I know the batteries aren't universal...

Definitely on the surface agitation tip. It seems the tank I'm getting (Waterbox AIO 50.3) is well set up to provide that coming out of the return, and I believe I'll have sufficient wave pumps for the rest.

Water volume is huge on my list. If I could afford to do more, I would. At least I'm getting a big boost over the 20 gallon I was planning to use. Maybe one day I'll pick up a spare 20 gallon or so and brave another HOB overflow (man I hate those things) with a low-flow setup underneath, in which I could maybe do... I dunno, seahorses, or some other critters, maybe on reverse lighting or something. Till then, I'm grateful to be upgrading, and within my budget. If my friend still has her 100-gallon tank intact and holding water, I'll be taking it from her, but it will be a long time before I can consider lighting it, and I'd have to buy or build a stand - still, here's to hoping she finds it intact.

SPS... is my long-term goal. I want them, but mainly because I could never have them with my T5's on my old tank, and because of the challenge - honestly, I think I broadly prefer LPS for the colors and movement.

Chemistry, I can do. I'm good at it, and have always enjoyed it. And conscientious/considerate use of your favorite GPT/LLM makes it even easier to keep track of what you're doing. I'd LOVE high end equipment, and if I had more money than I knew what to do with, I'd be happy to have it. But I'll make do with what I can afford, and just be happy to have a reef tank going again.

 

[Steve Burton]

A few of my thoughts:
Don't waste money on API test kits (other than ammonia to test cycle)
Test all 5 basics. I use:
Alkalinity- Hanna
Calcium - Salifert
Magnesium - Red Sea
Nitrate- Salifert
Phosphate - Hanna ULR

Jebao dosers are excellent, easy, affordable and extremely reliable.

Refractometers are great for regularly checking Alkalinity but should be checked frequently for calibration. I use a Tropic Marin Hydrometer, I don't trust calibration fluids.

Great refugium light for AIO tanks:

Lominie LED Aquarium Licht Gesamte Spektrum Süßwasser Aquarium Licht für Gepflanzt Nano Aquarium Tank ASTA 20 - AliExpress 15

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

a.aliexpress.com

Great skimmer for AIO tanks: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09ZQCWHPM?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Dollar Tree for Super Glue Gel - large bottles always end up wasted for me, nozzles clogged, etc.

 

[larrynews]

Don’t go cheap on equipment, save until you get what you want. I still need to remember that. I’m not good at it.

 

[siege]

A few of my thoughts:
Don't waste money on API test kits (other than ammonia to test cycle)
Test all 5 basics. I use:
Alkalinity- Hanna
Calcium - Salifert
Magnesium - Red Sea
Nitrate- Salifert
Phosphate - Hanna ULR

Jebao dosers are excellent, easy, affordable and extremely reliable.

Refractometers are great for regularly checking Alkalinity but should be checked frequently for calibration. I use a Tropic Marin Hydrometer, I don't trust calibration fluids.

Great refugium light for AIO tanks:

Lominie LED Aquarium Licht Gesamte Spektrum Süßwasser Aquarium Licht für Gepflanzt Nano Aquarium Tank ASTA 20 - AliExpress 15

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

a.aliexpress.com

Great skimmer for AIO tanks: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09ZQCWHPM?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Dollar Tree for Super Glue Gel - large bottles always end up wasted for me, nozzles clogged, etc.

Hmmm, good note on the API kits. If they're not accurate or reliable, I certainly don't want to waste money on them.

Presumably you mean the reagent-based tests? The digitals are... well, I'd love to. They make a ton of sense. But they're a chonky upfront investment. What test would you say is (or should be) done most often? Alkalinity? Maybe I can get one of those first, and the others as time goes by. I've put all the reagent tests in my list.

I've never used a dosing pump. Not that I can't figure out how, and it's not terribly expensive... but how necessary is it?

I'd also never used a refractometer, it just... seemed the way to go? But, I'm also not down with an instrument that requires regular calibration if I can avoid it - it's just something else to worry about. Presumably you're talking about the glass ones? Amazon doesn't seem to carry the specific brand, and they're out of stock at BRS, I'll have to find it elsewhere. Presumably you don't care for the ones that use a float?

Skimmer added to the list. What's the running wisdom on their necessity? How do I know when I've hit the wall of my existing filtration and fuge's ability to handle nutrient export (other than measuring nitrate? TDS?)

I was just going with a reef glue out of caution. I guess the cheap stuff is probably just plain CA, I was just worried about "modern" formulations having other stuff in them. But if Dollar Tree is the way to go, that's good by me.

Don’t go cheap on equipment, save until you get what you want. I still need to remember that. I’m not good at it.

I start with the opposite problem. I WANT to buy the good stuff. I know I have a habit of wanting only the best. Then I talk myself down in a series of compromises until I have something that fits my wants and my means. It does, however, sometimes mean I am able to find something within my immediate means, that may not have been the best option long-term. But I REALLY hate spending money twice, and if I can wait, I typically will.

 

[siege]

Having the tank where I see it most of the day has been so much better than I ever would have realized.

Also, the big question now, really, is does it go next to my desk, where I can see it all the time, even while I'm working, where I might find it distracting? Or against the wall behind me?

But really, the wall next to my desk on either side is where the south-facing windows are, and thus protected (mostly) from the sun, whereas the wall behind me gets lots of sun if the blinds are open... so, the wall next to my desk is better, right, because it'll reduce algae growth, right? Right?!

 

[shanepike]

Also, the big question now, really, is does it go next to my desk, where I can see it all the time, even while I'm working, where I might find it distracting? Or against the wall behind me?

But really, the wall next to my desk on either side is where the south-facing windows are, and thus protected (mostly) from the sun, whereas the wall behind me gets lots of sun if the blinds are open... so, the wall next to my desk is better, right, because it'll reduce algae growth, right? Right?!

Oh you ABSOLUTELY don't want that algae growth

 

[Adam]

Much of what has been said here is spot on in all regards. I also hate spending money twice on something I should have just saved a little more for.
Don't discount looking for used equipment, good stuff pops up all the time. For well over half of the new people that get in this hobby, are gone in a year or less.

Here are my takes on the last 10yrs in this hobby.

Weeks or months to cycle a tank are a thing of the past. With bacteria in a bottle the initial cycle is done in days. You can even add some coral to the tank before adding any fish, just dose a little Ammonia and Phosphate. Yes you read that right, dosing those two are now widely excepted practice. A fuge can be useful in the first 6 months to a year but not needed long term depending on the fish & invert bioload. Growing coral is a nutrient export, and that has a way of sneaking up on you.

Along with the lenght of cycle being in the rearview, so is trying to keep a ULNS. Most of the successful systems are not running 0.25 to 1ppm Nitrate or 0.01 to 0.03 Phosphate. More like 5-15 and .05 to .15 respectively, with some even higher. As with above and dosing nutrients, riding the line of ULNS can set you up for disaster as you starve the coral. Also Dino's and other issues are more likely to popup.

Testing has gotten better too. ICP-OS and MS are readily available and have become an excellent way to keep thing in check. There has been a ton learned in the last decade about keeping many micro elements detectable in the system. It's not just about the big three anymore.

One of the biggest areas of advancement has been in led lighting. Each generation of fixture from the main manufactures have greatly dialed in the right spectrum of led diodes. These newer lights will greatly add to your success in the hobby. Unfortunately the cost of fixtures have increased at an exponential rate. Post Covid pricing is 50-60% higher, with the light(s) over the tank very likely to be the the most expensive single component of the system beyond the tank and stand. This will be the biggest area not to skimp and buy cheap, because this will be the first thing you'll end up buying twice if you do. There are some "Lower" cost fixtures available but plan on something in the $500 per fixture to be on that lower end. With mid-range in the $750 neighborhood and $1000-1250 being in Country Club of the South. This is where finding something lightly used can save you big time.

 

[siege]

Much of what has been said here is spot on in all regards. I also hate spending money twice on something I should have just saved a little more for.
Don't discount looking for used equipment, good stuff pops up all the time. For well over half of the new people that get in this hobby, are gone in a year or less.

Here are my takes on the last 10yrs in this hobby.

Weeks or months to cycle a tank are a thing of the past. With bacteria in a bottle the initial cycle is done in days. You can even add some coral to the tank before adding any fish, just dose a little Ammonia and Phosphate. Yes you read that right, dosing those two are now widely excepted practice. A fuge can be useful in the first 6 months to a year but not needed long term depending on the fish & invert bioload. Growing coral is a nutrient export, and that has a way of sneaking up on you.

Along with the lenght of cycle being in the rearview, so is trying to keep a ULNS. Most of the successful systems are not running 0.25 to 1ppm Nitrate or 0.01 to 0.03 Phosphate. More like 5-15 and .05 to .15 respectively, with some even higher. As with above and dosing nutrients, riding the line of ULNS can set you up for disaster as you starve the coral. Also Dino's and other issues are more likely to popup.

Testing has gotten better too. ICP-OS and MS are readily available and have become an excellent way to keep thing in check. There has been a ton learned in the last decade about keeping many micro elements detectable in the system. It's not just about the big three anymore.

One of the biggest areas of advancement has been in led lighting. Each generation of fixture from the main manufactures have greatly dialed in the right spectrum of led diodes. These newer lights will greatly add to your success in the hobby. Unfortunately the cost of fixtures have increased at an exponential rate. Post Covid pricing is 50-60% higher, with the light(s) over the tank very likely to be the the most expensive single component of the system beyond the tank and stand. This will be the biggest area not to skimp and buy cheap, because this will be the first thing you'll end up buying twice if you do. There are some "Lower" cost fixtures available but plan on something in the $500 per fixture to be on that lower end. With mid-range in the $750 neighborhood and $1000-1250 being in Country Club of the South. This is where finding something lightly used can save you big time.

Heh, good note about the used, which is made pretty plain just by the number of empty or barely used fish tanks on sale on Facebook Marketplace. Me, I'm an animal person, and have been my entire life. As a (former) falconer, I've lost birds that were worth more than the average ARC member's entire setup. I've done rehab on raptors, parrots, dogs and cats. I do love those birds, but they're more of an investment in not just money, but TIME, than I have: even when the bird is well trained, you still have to hunt with them, which means up in time to get to wherever you're hunting with sunrise... which is usually about the time I'm going to bed. Fish? WAY less of a time investment on a regular basis - I'll be perfectly content to capitalize on others' decision not to stick with it. I've been trying to find the money to get back into the hobby for far too long, it was always just the *initial* investment, along with knowing I was planning to move soon (which I did earlier in 2024) that kept me from it.

That's really interesting on the cycle being shortened that much. Like I said, I was pretty impressed with myself for doing it in freshwater in 13 days, but the only things I used to do that were taken from my existing freshwater tank. The bacterial and coralline boosters are that good, eh?

The ULNS is a good note. I never did have many corals in my old tank, and in 2008 was definitely in the ULNS mode... and that tank was sort of a rolling disaster, due to a variety of reasons. I was watching something last night actually that was intimating similar when it was talking about certain corals benefiting from a higher nitrate, and others that close up when nitrate is too low - I believe it also mentioned dinos getting out of control. I definitely need to dig deeper into this.

So... whats the cost on the ICP-OS and MS testing? How often should I plan on doing that, other than when I'm worried if things are getting out of hand? Futureinterest saved my tank way back when by diagnosing a bryopsis outbreak I wasn't able to ID myself at the that nearly wiped the tank - presumably the conditions leading to it would have shown up on such tests?

As for the lighting, yeah the LED's were expensive AF when I started in the hobby in 2007, and the spectrum wasn't entirely there. I was determined to go that route this time, hence the lights I put on my shopping list, one of which to my surprise I received for Christmas - they were there on a lark, one of many models I picked out while fantasy-shopping for myself; I really didn't expect anyone to spend $300 on me like that. So, they're definitely a "lower cost" fixture that I'd hoped would be suitable for a small tank, BUT, it gave the impetus and justification to finally get back into the hobby: hopefully they'll be enough to get me started, and I can keep an eye out for a good used spot or something further down the road.

 

[jcook54]

1. It's a small thing but I resisted buying a good glass cleaning magnet for way too long. Why spend $50 on a magnet cleaner when I can just scrape by hand and and save the money?!?! Buying a Flip was some of the best money I ever spent. Lo and behold my tank started looking better because it only took a minute or two to clean.
2. Keep a file for any and all equipment. Whatever information you can get, warranties, manuals, diagrams, etc. Do the online warranty registration and file it away. It can be a pain to try and locate that stuff after the fact.

 

[siege]

1. It's a small thing but I resisted buying a good glass cleaning magnet for way too long. Why spend $50 on a magnet cleaner when I can just scrape by hand and and save the money?!?! Buying a Flip was some of the best money I ever spent. Lo and behold my tank started looking better because it only took a minute or two to clean.
2. Keep a file for any and all equipment. Whatever information you can get, warranties, manuals, diagrams, etc. Do the online warranty registration and file it away. It can be a pain to try and locate that stuff after the fact.

Great advice! I have a... well, not cheap, but not expensive one on my freshwater tank, but the blades on it are just plastic. A "Flip" you say? Can you tell me more? Ah, I see now, a "Flipper Edge"?

Also, I do tend to do the registrations online, anyway. I probably should indeed set up a file for all the papers, right now everything just kinda goes on or in the cabinet under my counter where my misc stuff is for the fresh tank.

I kinda would have thought that installing and registering the app for my lights might have done the warranty bit, but now I don't think so, and need to look into that.