Reverse Osmosis??

[georgiasunflower]

OK I am relatively new here so if it has been discussed to death please be kind and just refer me to the correct thread...

I am very confused about what R/O is and why it is necessary. I have a degree in computer science so I am not a complete idiot. But I am certainly no chemistry major so please - have pity on me. Can anyone explain this in laymen's terms???

 

[blind1993]

r/o is reverse osmsis(i think correct spelling). it is not necessary in my opionion for tanks that are not reefs, with the exception of delicate fish.

ro take the impurites out of water and makes it pure. that is as simple as it gets.

 

[jetchris]

IMO it is necessary, basically takes all the impurities out if tap water.

 

[roland jacques]

their are things in tap water that you don't want in your tank. RO-DI remove impurity's

 

[navyreefer]

Definitely a must, its the first step to getting and keeping phosphates at 0. There are so many things added to drinking water that humans need that are not needed or wanted in a reef environment. Not using R/O is the first mistake alot of new tank owners make!

If you have a publix near your house you can get it for like 25 cents a gallon, not bad and a lot less hassle to me. Just have to make sure they change the media

 

[blind1993]

sending pm to navyreefer because i do not want to start arguing in public but want to get my reasoning through.

 

[dakota9]

Reverse Osmosis, is a purification process that can actually get TDS (total desolved solids) down to zero.

However, I confess I use regular tap water ran through a carbon/floss water purifier (which gives me a reliable 80 TDS). I also have a mixed reef (fish, softies, some sps, lps, clam, sponge, anemone), and have done this for quite sometime with positive results.

Because of my tank's location (my sunroom) I fight a once annual hair algae problem at the height of winter when my tank gets 6 hours of natural sunlight a day (I've armed myself with an arsonal of information this past year, and am ready to battle my returning nemesis). Other than that, my tank is beautifully pristine 11 months out of the year.


I scoff at the idea of a RO unit being required to have a reef tank. Seems like guys that use RO battles algae just as much as I do, and they don't have natural sunlight to contend with.

 

[navyreefer]

If you can't tell already <u>A LOT</u> of reef keeping is opinionated

But thats what makes it fun, find what works for you and take advice for what its worth, then try to make the choice that seems right for your little ecosystem.

 

[mojo]

A successful reef tank could easily be run without an RO unit. You could also run a marathon in flip-flops....

A reverse osmosis works by the way it sounds. ormally, under osmosis, molecules will try to find a balance in the system. In an RO unit, pressure is applied to the water across a semi-permeable membrane. This membrane is selective, only allowing certain sized molecules pass through- in this case, H2O. The pressure causes the H2O molecules to get shoved through the membrane, resulting in almost pure water - about 98-99% pure.

We add a bunch of junk in our tank through fish food, fish poop, detritus buildup, etc. Why fight the problem of nitrates and phosphates even more by allowing them to come in through your makeup water?

 

[skriz]

I don't believe RO is a necessity, but in most cases it does help. If your water already has low tds, then you could run it through carbon and even DI and use it in your tank without any problems.

I don't think it is as far a gap as running shoes and flip flops. With flip flops in a marathon, you will suffer 100% of the time. This is not true with tap water in a reef. You do have to filter some things out of the water however!

Medical facilities use DI water all day long. I know this is a different setting, but this is medical grade water, which will be fine for most systems.

I am lucky enough to have very clean tap water, yet I do run RO. I have been thinking of experimenting with just carbon and DI water and monitoring any changes.

 

[dakota9]

Intellectually, using RO water does make a lot of sense. However, in practical use, I've just not seen it make a huge difference, and in many cases, no difference at all.

 

[suasati]

georgiasunflower;91006 wrote: OK I am relatively new here so if it has been discussed to death please be kind and just refer me to the correct thread...

I am very confused about what R/O is and why it is necessary. I have a degree in computer science so I am not a complete idiot. But I am certainly no chemistry major so please - have pity on me. Can anyone explain this in laymen's terms???

Tap water has a few things that we wanted to keep down or away from our tanks....

Chlorine/Chloramines(thanks god we don't have these)

- removal through carbon block stage or just aerating for a few days would clear these out...

Phosphates/Nitrates/Silicates

- De-Ionization stage......

Dirt
- Prefilter usually a 1 micron one... some use a 5 micron one as an additional stage...

And most of all... heavy metals, in this process we also remove ca and carbonates which are actually desirable....

- done in the RO stage through the semi-permeable membrane.....


If your water doesn't have much of these straight out of tap then you can get away without an RO, especially in case of FO tanks and softie tanks.... but having one surely helps a bit....

 

[mojo]

Skriz;91049 wrote: Medical facilities use DI water all day long. I know this is a different setting, but this is medical grade water, which will be fine for most systems.

Do note that medical labs and other facilities can't use RO water - they must use DI or distilled. I don't know the exact reasoning - it's not my field. But just be wary of using the argument that it's good enough for medical stuff...

 

[cdub]

well i am also no expert, but i did spend 5 years in college getting a ChemE degree and here are my 2 cents....

a ro unit to your fish tank is just like your air filter is to your car engine or ac unit your home. yes you can run both of these without a filter, but in the long run is it going to affect your performance and maintenance? probably

you can have a tank without using an ro unit but i believe it requires you to be a little more diligent in other areas.

 

[dakota9]

cdub;91093 wrote: well i am also no expert, but i did spend 5 years in college getting a ChemE degree and here are my 2 cents....

a ro unit to your fish tank is just like your air filter is to your car engine or ac unit your home. yes you can run both of these without a filter, but in the long run is it going to affect your performance and maintenance? probably

you can have a tank without using an ro unit but i believe it requires you to be a little more diligent in other areas.

I'm not on board with that particular analogy. Going with the car theme, I think it's more like the difference in regular unleaded and premium gas.

I do wholeheartedly agree with your third statement. Yes if or when an issue occurs, diligence is the order of the day.

 

[georgiasunflower]

First of all Thank you very much. AFter seeing some other threads I was a little nervous asking this question, but ya'll have been very respectful and helpful - thank you! I think I understand... Have I mentioned I tend to get overwhelmed? LOL

When I first started, I was told by a few people (even at LFS) that a RO Unit was not necessarily a must. As I have learned more, I wanted to be sure that was still the case. My tank is not just fish, I have some soft corals and anemone. I do want to add more corals so I want to be sure I am doing so in a healthy way. I constantly monitor the levels in my tank and so far, the only one I have been concerned with is Calcium. pH, Alk., Salinity, Phos, Ammonia, Nitrite/Nitrate, and hardness have all remained within acceptable parameters. - again So FAR

Since everyone has been so helpful can I ask what type of unit you recommend for a 90 gallon bow front. About how much money is reasonable to spend for it?

 

[roland jacques]

RO And DI need to be looked at seperately.

A DI can achieve 99.999% pure water. With or without a RO in front of it.

A RO can only Reduce Impuritys OF the source water. (to verying degrees depending on the RO membrane you use)

The reason we use RO in front of a DI is to extend the useable life of the DI. So basicly the RO saves us money over replaceing DI resin every 50 (more or less) gallons.

I for one have seen big changes in tanks that go form using tap water to RO/DI water. I believe the visual differances i,ve seen come mainly from the Phosphates that where removed With the RO/DI water. The most noticable changes are coraline agae growth. These pink algaes useally take off once the phosphates drop off.

 

[roland jacques]

When you look for a RO/DI. You want a RO membrane that rejects 98% of waste. The best membranes reject 99% ($pectrapure brand) and some common ones only reject 90%. The 98% and the 90% cost the same so just make sure you get the 98% one.

 

[mojo]

georgiasunflower;91126 wrote: Since everyone has been so helpful can I ask what type of unit you recommend for a 90 gallon bow front. About how much money is reasonable to spend for it?

You can almost ignore GPD ratings - unless you've got some serious water pressure at your house (1.5-2x what everyone else has), then you'll see maybe half of what the rated flow rate is.

The biggest reason for getting a larger unit up front is for those times when you need to make a lot of water fast - such as a tank crash or large water change.

I recommend these guys to everyone, and everyone I know that has bought from them has been happy, including myself: http://www.thefilterguys.biz/ro_di_systems.htm">http://www.thefilterguys.biz/ro_di_systems.htm</a> They're also one of the cheaper ones out there.

Lastly, remember that the RO quality comes from the membranes themselves - everything else is just plastic. Also try to get a filter that uses clear containers for the prefilter, carbon block, and DI filters; without these, you can't visually inspect anything. Filter Guys use high quality membranes and all the units they sell use clear containers.

 

[roland jacques]

I would also recommend http://www.thefilterguys.biz"><span style="color: #000088;">www.thefilterguys.biz</span></a> they use quality parts.
They make a dual membrane "Water saver" unit.
It saves about 70% more water than normal ROs. And It will also save on prefilters, about 70% less changes will be needed.
I made my own, theres is a little pricey...