Solenoids, Waterbugs, ATO, RO and Apex

[hawkfish]

I recently purchased several waterbug alarms from an ARC member and have successfully connected them to my apex. They detect water near my sump, RO, display, and water storage container and will shut off my main pump if water is detected.

One area of concern is my RO unit and the possibility that the John Guest tubing or fittings fail. I thought I could add a solenoid preferably as close to the water source as possible which would cut off the water in the case of a water leak.

This Useful Item Thread in Reef discussion
http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1153">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1153</a>

led me to this....


[I][B]Solenoid Valves:
[IMG]http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/112/gfx/small/7877kp1s.gif" alt="" />
[/B]Instead of using an expensive peristaltic pump or hard-to-manage powerhead for auto-topoff, you can control a gravity feed using a solenoid valve and some 1/4" John Guest fittings for $19.62 from </em>[IMG]http://www.mcmaster.com/"><span style="color: #22229c;">[I]McMaster-Carr</em></span></a>[I] (Part num 7877K53). <span style="color: black;">Be aware that they won't work against house pressure - using them to control an RO/DI filter won't work, in my experience.
</span></em>
The "be aware" section concerns me and whether I should be looking to something else.

Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks, Wade

 

[joseayes]

I think this thread could help you some, I'm doing almost the same thing as the thread, not plumbing to my FW reservoir, just trying to automate my RO a little more.

 

[hawkfish]

Thanks for the info. I just noticed this on the McMaster-Carr website:

Valves are closed unless energized (normally closed) </em>

I may not understand, but I want the water to flow through the valve (open?) unless the waterbug fires, then I want to valve to close. Will this still work?

 

[chris s]

HawkFish;861573 wrote: Thanks for the info. I just noticed this on the McMaster-Carr website:

Valves are closed unless energized (normally closed) </em>

I may not understand, but I want the water to flow through the valve (open?) unless the waterbug fires, then I want to valve to close. Will this still work?

With this valve you will need the apex to power it open. When it detects water it will remove power closing the valve. Plus if your house power goes out the valve closes.

 

[hawkfish]

I think I'm understanding. I'll have to attach a standard plug to the wires of the solenoid, plug the solenoid into my EB8 as an Outlet, and program it something like

Fallback OFF
Set ON
If Waterbug = ON Then OFF

Comments?

 

[joseayes]

I don't know if the valve alone will have enough power to be detected for the controller, some outlets in my old junior controller have to draw certain amount of power so the controller can fired them or not

 

[chris s]

it says max .29 amps. I think it will be enough to make a triac outlet work. Or if it's available use a relay outlet, it shouldn't be cycling.

I've seen people add a single outlet inline surge protector (about $5) to make the triac outlets work with low draw devices.

 

[hawkfish]

I'm an idiot. I don't understand Chris's point. Can I not just attach a two prong plug to the wires and plug it in? What's a triac outlet, or relay outlet?

 

[cedzaquaddiction]

Basically, if the item you are plugging into the outlet doesn't draw enough power, the Apex will not even know it's there. You can add something to it to make it draw more power to be recognized, or use outlet numbers 4 or 8 because they are relay outlets. You will hear them click when they come on and go off... Just make sure whatever you plug into 4 or 8 isn't something that goes on and off constantly because it may adversely effect the relays...

 

[hawkfish]

Ah, thanks Cedz

 

[schwaggs]

HawkFish;861610 wrote: I think I'm understanding. I'll have to attach a standard plug to the wires of the solenoid, plug the solenoid into my EB8 as an Outlet, and program it something like

Fallback OFF
Set ON
If Waterbug = ON Then OFF

Comments?

I would go with it the other way.

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Waterbug = OFF Then ON

You could also go with a limited ON time using this:

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 8:00 to 16:00 Then ON
If Waterbug = ON Then OFF

 

[hawkfish]

But if it requires electricity to be open, doesn't it have to be ON in most cases?

Maybe you don't realize but my RO unit is typically running because it also feeds my refrigerator?

Solenoid came UPS this morning, so I'll be setting it up tonight.

 

[picoreefguy]

its probably not a good idea to have your ro system hooked up to the fridge. they typically dont last as long when you run them in short cycles like a fridge would need whather its your ice maker or the water outlet on the front they only use small amounts of water at a time and short cycles like that can make the ro membrane clog up prematurely

 

[joseayes]

Picoreefguy;862497 wrote: its probably not a good idea to have your ro system hooked up to the fridge. they typically dont last as long when you run them in short cycles like a fridge would need whather its your ice maker or the water outlet on the front they only use small amounts of water at a time and short cycles like that can make the ro membrane clog up prematurely

+1 large batches of water will make the membrane to aloud flush contaminants other than just using it sporadically

 

[hawkfish]

Appreciate the feedback. I was able to successfully install and program the solenoid. Works like a charm. And, to take into account Schwaggs and PicoReefGuy, I've set the program as follows:

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 16:00 to 17:00 Then ON
If DoW S-----S Then OFF
If Outlet WaterBug = ON Then OFF
If Outlet VO_Safety = ON Then OFF
If FeedD 120 Then ON

I haven't sufficiently tested the programming, but my thought is the RO only needs to make water for the refrigerator pump once a day. It has an hour to do that at the end of each day when people aren't around. It also stays off on Saturday and Sunday when no one is here. Finally, if I'm doing a water change (Feed D) then it should stay on long enough afterward to create another tank of water (used for top off and next water change).

Comments?

 

[schwaggs]

Looks good. 1 hour of run time sounds a little short but you can adjust if need be.