SPS and LPS

[oceandeep85]

allow me, if I may, to float a question out there...:sail: get it? See what I did? yes? no? :lol2::doh::boo: ... ::crickets:::blush: anyhow.. just thought it'd be neat to stir up some debate on how/why we keep certain corals the way that we do.

is it REALLY because these are the unbending requirements of keeping healthy, thriving and prolific corals in our aquariums according to the most closely related replicable conditions in the coral's natural environments? (i.e., is it really that we MUST replicate it's natural environment?) or is a question of generations of fragging and tank breeding that have led us to the point where we need to constantly maintain specific water parameters with the use of elbow grease, money and sometimes expensive equipment?

In my mind, I feel like it's probably a delicate balance of both, but I'd absolutely love to hear thoughts from more experienced coral parents in the hobby. Have you been able to bump the norm in certain occassions and kept what you thought would be 'difficult' corals relatively cheaply and easily? Have certain coral species that you were told would be 'easy' turned out to be a nightmare?

If we are to believe that it's because we are charged as coral keepers with replicating the coral's natural environments, then how is it that massive and beautiful SPS colonies can survive in the ocean which is constantly being beaten upon by pollution and other negative environmental factors? (I suppose the EASY answer is that they are not, that in THOSE cases, they die).. but try, if you will, to imagine that SPS and LPS corals which need certain conditions in our tanks (or they die) grow in the wild where conditions swing and shift daily. How do they carry on there and not in our tanks?


I'm particularly interested in learning about SPS and LPS corals. I myself am not necessarily a noob anymore, but I still have a ton I need to learn and experience before I can refer to myself as an authority at all.

So, I was thinking.. going down the deep dark rabbit holes on the internet when one search topic or item leads you to another.. and it dawned on me.. we spend hundreds, even thousands (the lucky ones) on equipment and chemicals and our time and attention to keep these creatures successfully when in nature they grow into massive colonies and they are subjected to far more danger of temperature, salinity and chemical changes, than in our tanks at home.

 

[twhaddon]

Much larger water volume in the ocean to dilute the pollute?

 

[oceandeep85]

twhaddon;979735 wrote: Much larger water volume in the ocean to dilute the pollute?

yeah, I thought about that too.. but think about just how sensitive we understand these creatures to be.. at a point, is dilution no longer the answer? I don't know. The whole thing is interesting to think about.

 

[jpines]

Very interesting topic..I have to believe the large water volume in the ocean is the key as well. That's why the hobby "supposedly" gets easier with larger tank sizes..the larger the water volume, the less the tank parameters will swing throughout the day. Or at least that's my thoughts/opinion...I'm interested to see what more experienced folks have to say


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[kilralpine]

Its the water volume. There are alot of cases where the same two corals from the same parent colony make it to two different tanks that have the exact same stats and having one die and the other thrive. There are many outside influences but there is so much water moving around reefs in the wild that the chances a piece of coral will hit the same exact batch of water twice is very unlikely to happen and therefore wont cause endured stress to the coral due to pollution being local. Now if its a very heavy pollution aka someone dumps an oil tanker next to a reef there is not alot that can save it, its all about the ppm/volume.

As far as what is easy to keep and what is hard to keep it varies greatly from tank to tank even if your tank is as clean as a whistle. Some people can grow out SPS like its going out of style but cant even manage to get Xenia to grow. Xenia is basically known as the weed of the sea, it grows like wildfire and pretty much in any conditions. I sometimes am not really sure what to think when someone tells me something is easy or hard to keep; only real way to find out is to try. :doh:

 

[oceandeep85]

kilralpine;979741 wrote: Its the water volume. There are alot of cases where the same two corals from the same parent colony make it to two different tanks that have the exact same stats and having one die and the other thrive. There are many outside influences but there is so much water moving around reefs in the wild that the chances a piece of coral will hit the same exact batch of water twice is very unlikely to happen and therefore wont cause endured stress to the coral due to pollution being local. Now if its a very heavy pollution aka someone dumps an oil tanker next to a reef there is not alot that can save it, its all about the ppm/volume.

As far as what is easy to keep and what is hard to keep it varies greatly from tank to tank even if your tank is as clean as a whistle. Some people can grow out SPS like its going out of style but cant even manage to get Xenia to grow. Xenia is basically known as the weed of the sea, it grows like wildfire and pretty much in any conditions. I sometimes am not really sure what to think when someone tells me something is easy or hard to keep; only real way to find out is to try. :doh:

totally agree. But I guess what I was thinking is that, we've turned, at least SPS, into such a meticulous science where some folks are measuring and dosing down to .0001 measurements.. and I was thinking to myself.. nature is anything but precise. You know? So, maybe my question is more a question of the sensitivity of corals.. and, like you said, I have a buddy in Law School who keeps both SPS and LPS in his tank and both do very well and all he does is dose a little Instant Ocean or Kent and keep up with water changes. Doesn't even have a skimmer.

 

[tonymission]

SPS isn't that difficult and I don't know anyone with the resolution to measure to the .0001th. It's just that other corals don't necessarily require consistent and proper husbandry. SPS you at least have to do the right thing, but with stable water parameters there's not much to it.

I've killed Xenia twice btw. One of the few corals I can't keep. And dozens of sps growing like crazy. Go figure.

 

[oceandeep85]

tonymission;980157 wrote: SPS isn't that difficult and I don't know anyone with the resolution to measure to the .0001th. It's just that other corals don't necessarily require consistent and proper husbandry. SPS you at least have to do the right thing, but with stable water parameters there's not much to it.

I've killed Xenia twice btw. One of the few corals I can't keep. And dozens of sps growing like crazy. Go figure.

haha.. sorry, I suppose I should clarify: my commentary on '.0001' was an exaggeration to emphasize a point.

 

[tonymission]

OceanDeep85;980158 wrote: haha.. sorry, I suppose I should clarify: my commentary on '.0001' was an exaggeration to emphasize a point.

Obviously. But my point remains. SPS doesn't take more work. Just takes the RIGHT work. You can often get by doing a lot of the wrong things with the wrong equipment with other corals. Somehow this makes SPS "very difficult", which I just don't agree with in general.

 

[oceandeep85]

tonymission;980159 wrote: Obviously. But my point remains. SPS doesn't take more work. Just takes the RIGHT work. You can often get by doing a lot of the wrong things with the wrong equipment with other corals. Somehow this makes SPS "very difficult", which I just don't agree with in general.

..ok. Well, as a new reefer, and a nano reefer, I have to say that what you're saying, I agree with and it also relieves a little of the anxiety. . I suppose I should have also mentioned that my buddy has a 29 gallon and is meticulous with his water changes and top offs, but he doesn't have any special gadgets or gear and isn't measuring every parameter under the sun.

 

[jdavid]

It's just really not going to go well in a 10 gallon tank trying to keep any of the more delicate SPS fresh into the hobby

They require low levels of nitrate and phosphates combined with stable levels of calcium alkalinity and magnesium within the desired range. That's a difficult combination in low TWV systems

 

[acroholic]

I would look at it this way: the smaller the volume of water you are dealing with, the harder it is to maintain stability, and the smaller the volume of water, the faster things can go bad. Your bud with the SPS in the small volume probably makes it look easy, but you stated he is meticulous, so there you go. You can maintain a tank on water changes alone, IME, if you are using a salt mix that has KH, calcium and magnesium levels at what the corals need.

I have a mostly SPS reef and a mixed softy/LPS reef mainly because I have the space, and I find I can provide more exacting conditions for their needs in separate, focused systems. A quick example is flow. I have flow the SPS love in my 465, about 55,000 gph peak flow, but it would tear a hammer, frogspawn, torch, elegance, or a lot of other LPS apart. In my mixed 90 gallon, I have a single MP40 set at about 35%, or maybe 1100-1200 gph, which seems great for the multiple euphyllias, acans, etc. in the tank, but terribly inadequate for SPS.

You can do both SPS and LPS/soft corals in the same tank, but you need to find a compromise between the flow and light requirements of the corals, usually dealt with via careful placement of corals in the tank and placing your in tank flow pumps where they benefit corals needing high flow and away from those needing moderate or lower flow, or placing LPS corals in areas of lower, but adequate flow.

SPS systems need stability to a greater degree than Soft/LPS corals, IME, and that translates into more time inputs. I spend easily three times more time on maintenance on my SPS tank than my mixed tank, the vast majority of that extra time being put into cleaning and/or changing stuff out, like filter socks, skimmer cups, carbon, and GFO.

But the extra time required for SPS just goes with the territory. That is why it is very beneficial to have an honest self appraisal of how much effort you are willing to put into the actual maintenance of a reef tank.

A couple years ago I had 5 separate aquarium systems going, three reefs and a two FW systems, and they all suffered because I got burned out on taking care of them. I had to do a self appraisal of how much work I was willing to do, and I ended up upgrading to the 465 gallon, and taking down a 150 gallon reef and a 265 gallon FW system, so I now have two reef tanks and one FW tank instead of five systems, and that is a good balance for me now, particularly with the level of automated water changing I have incorporated into my tanks at this point.

I have said it before, to be successful in this hobby you either have to be willing to put in small regular amounts of time to keep your tank healthy, or be rich enough to pay someone else to do it for you!

In many ways, a nano or smaller volume SPS tank is harder than a comparable higher volume one because of the inherent stability increase you get the more volume you have in your system.

 

[snowmansnow]

i agree with the above posts.. small tank volumes = HUGE swings with SMALL triggers.

 

[oceandeep85]

yeah. I love all the feedback. I just think it's a really interesting question, you know? and not one I see folks asking a lot about really. Whether or not we've bred them to be super sensitive, whether or not we've noticed in our own personal ecosystems that if we pay top dollar they are better looking, or if we really MUST adhere to the conditions from their natural environments or whether it's a healthy mixture of all of the above.

 

[oceandeep85]

by the way, I'm not debating the water volume question at all and I totally agree. I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I'm not going to attempt any SPS until I at least have the 40 breeder, more money and more experience.

 

[acroholic]

SPS were considered nearly impossible to keep long term 20 years ago. Reef tech and husbandry method improvements have made it a reality. I still would not call SPS easy, but definitely not really difficult, as long as you do the work. Just less room to put maintenance off with SPS vs LPS and soft corals.

Here is a 50 gallon ReefKeeping Magazine Tank of the Month, stuffed with SPS:

 

[oceandeep85]

SPS were considered nearly impossible to keep long term 20 years ago. Reef tech and husbandry method improvements have made it a reality. I still would not call SPS easy, but definitely not really difficult, as long as you do the work. Just less room to put maintenance off with SPS vs LPS and soft corals.




...you sound like my law professors... :shout:

 

[acroholic]

OceanDeep85;980224 wrote:

SPS were considered nearly impossible to keep long term 20 years ago. Reef tech and husbandry method improvements have made it a reality. I still would not call SPS easy, but definitely not really difficult, as long as you do the work. Just less room to put maintenance off with SPS vs LPS and soft corals.




...you sound like my law professors... :shout:

My apologies!

 

[oceandeep85]

Acroholic;980225 wrote:

My apologies!

hahaha. meh.. in a way it's a compliment.. probably means your know your shi... stuff.