Structural Engineer?

[leyth]

Hey guys, I'm looking to set up a reefer 450 on my main floor in the near future. However, after looking at the supports in the basement, it was recommended to me to hire a structural engineer. Apparently, these holes in the supports were wrongly done. Can anyone recommend a structural engineer that is local? I live in Dunwoody.
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[enderg60]

I dont know a structural engineer but I can tell you that is a very bad. You will need to at least replace that if not beef it up.

 

[Adam]

Yeah, those holes in the webbing should not run all the way to the stringers and I do not believe there should be two so close together.

When I did some work in my basement 15 years ago I just looked up a company on the net. I can't remember what I spent but it wasn't much, couple hundred or so and that was for 2 sets of calcs.
I'll see if I can find the paperwork when I get home.

*Edit* And I agree with Ender. That Is not good at all. I'd say it may even be lawsuit worthy.

 

[leyth]

Thanks guys. I have no idea who put those holes there though. I bought the house used a couple months ago. I'm surprised my inspector didn't mention this though.

 

[aquaworld75]

Holes look like holes were intended for HVAC pipe. Good luck with new tank.


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[hzheng33]

Is that you on R2R?

 

[leyth]

hzheng33;1103945 wrote: Is that you on R2R?

Yea that's me

Edit: My name is Leyth on every single forum lol.

 

[Adam]

Here's some info on the floor joists. Boise Cascade bought this division from Georgia Pacific...
https://p.widencdn.net/yl44ev">https://p.widencdn.net/yl44ev</a>
Look on page 4.

From what they are saying the web can be completely cut out but the flange can't be touched. These are all also based on 40psf live load & 10psf for dead loads. Your tank will be quite a bit higher than the 10psf dead load rating. Like not in the same ball park higher. This is where the engineer will tell you what reinforcements you will need to do. Tell them that you're planning on putting 1500lbs there so there'll be a little more cushion in their calcs.

 

[leyth]

anit77;1103949 wrote: Here's some info on the floor joists. Boise Cascade bought this division from Georgia Pacific...
https://p.widencdn.net/yl44ev">https://p.widencdn.net/yl44ev</a>
Look on page 4.

From what they are saying the web can be completely cut out but the flange can't be touched. These are all also based on 40psf live load & 10psf for dead loads. Your tank will be quite a bit higher than the 10psf dead load rating. Like not in the same ball park higher. This is where the engineer will tell you what reinforcements you will need to do. Tell them that you're planning on putting 1500lbs there so there'll be a little more cushion in their calcs.[/QUOTE]

Ok great, thanks for the help with the research. I was seeing similar things in my research. The holes are okay as long as they are positioned in the correct places.

 

[leyth]

Here are some better pictures of the situation:

There are 3 holes in each joist across the entire house. As you can see here they are each 11" in diameter:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/fishstuff/StructuralIssues/2.JPG" alt="" />

They are also spaced out 22"

[IMG]https://s3.amazonaws.com/fishstuff/StructuralIssues/1.JPG" alt="" />

According to my research, holes like this are allowed and actually quite common in many houses for HVAC routes:

[IMG]https://s3.amazonaws.com/fishstuff/StructuralIssues/AllowableHoles.png alt="" />

However, according to these guidelines, this hole is too close to the wall:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/fishstuff/StructuralIssues/3.JPG" alt="" />

I will call around for engineers next week.

 

[grouper therapy]

those can be repaired if need be.

 

[leyth]

grouper therapy;1103960 wrote: those can be repaired if need be.

Cool, that would be ideal if they are not up to code/standard. I would hate to need to replace it all if that's even possible.

 

[sn4k33y3z]

Would the tank sit parallel with the joists or perpendicular with them? Also, what is the distance between the pictured load bearing wall to the next load bearing wall? The sub floor sitting on-top of the joists will act as load distribution.

However, your joist webs are cut improperly. The closer the hole is to the bearing point, the smaller the diameter of the hole must be. Those joist webs will need to be repaired.

 

[leyth]

Sn4k33y3z;1103968 wrote: Would the tank sit parallel with the joists or perpendicular with them? Also, what is the distance between the pictured load bearing wall to the next load bearing wall? The sub floor sitting on-top of the joists will act as load distribution.

However, your joist webs are cut improperly. The closer the hole is to the bearing point, the smaller the diameter of the hole must be. Those joist webs will need to be repaired.

The long side of the tank would be parallel with the directions the joists run. I think that's the less ideal way, but the only other option would be to have the tank directly in front of a window.

The distance between the two load bearing walls is 16 feet.

 

[hzheng33]

Any chance that you might consider a smaller tank? I know it's difficult especially when the wife has given the green light, but part of me would be uncertain regarding the longevity of the floor if I were in your shoes

 

[Adam]

Leyth;1103969 wrote: The long side of the tank would be parallel with the directions the joists run. I think that's the less ideal way, but the only other option would be to have the tank directly in front of a window.

The distance between the two load bearing walls is 16 feet.

I would recommend against running parallel even if the joists were not in the state they're in, especially when you have a perfectly good finished basement to place the tank.

To run parallel you will need to add a lot of support and most likely a column. Not to mention the 2x6 load bearing outer wall is not designed to handle that kind of load. So it will need to be reinforced as well. Which means tearing out some drywall to add more 2x6 suppoerts. A perpendicular placement on an outer wall that is concrete would be ideal. Why not just put it down in the basement?

 

[grouper therapy]

I would definitely get an engineer involved .

 

[myvwrock]

Yup engineer, what's the typical cost of one to come out and take a look? A few hundred bucks? I don't know.

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[leyth]

anit77;1103979 wrote: I would recommend against running parallel even if the joists were not in the state they're in, especially when you have a perfectly good finished basement to place the tank.

To run parallel you will need to add a lot of support and most likely a column. Not to mention the 2x6 load bearing outer wall is not designed to handle that kind of load. So it will need to be reinforced as well. Which means tearing out some drywall to add more 2x6 suppoerts. A perpendicular placement on an outer wall that is concrete would be ideal. Why not just put it down in the basement?

Bummer, I really wanted the tank in my office and unfortunately that's the only wall it would make sense to put it against. The basement makes the most sense, but we don't go in the basement often. I'd rather the tank be somewhere that it is viewed often. I think i would just go with a smaller tank if this doesn't work out.

 

[Adam]

This is the firm I used.
Peachtree State Building Consultants http://psbci.com">http://psbci.com</a>

It was $150 to do two major calcs. When I finished my basement 15yrs ago I added a French door in the same type wall as in your 1st pic. We jacked up the house and removed the existing door. Then put in an over engineered header for the opening. I also shortened an internal load bearing wall and put in an I-beam with 2 columns. This required jacking up the house too.

I did all of this myself with the help of two friends. So I do have some experience with this type of work and what types of loads that exterior wall can handle.

Based on the RSR 450, sump and all equipment weighing about 1200 in a 59"x20" footprint your looking at a 146psf dead load.
To get this done you'll most likely need to pull some of the drywall and reinforce the exterior wall, add in a short section of additional trusses and a column or 2.

It's doable but I don't know what the cost will be.