substrate help for new 180g reef

[kkcrowe]

Hello, everyone. I have done some research but still have some questions. I am setting up my first reef tank, it is 180 gallons (6'x2'x2'). All the plumbing and gear should be done next week and I will be ready to add LR, sand, etc. Although I understand the benefits of biologically active "live" sand, I don't know if I truly need it. Here are a few questions that I had....

1) If the tank will have ~ 150lb of quality live rock (which will be used for cycling), is it really necessary to have "live" sand? For example, couldn't some of the micro life from the live rock, and my dsb refugium populate any sand/substrate (over time)?
2) If I should do "live" sand, should I do all if it in live sand or can do the majority as non-live sand and a small portion as live sand to populate the rest?
3) I was thinking very fine sand (no bigger than 1mm) for my small dsb refugium, at a depth of about 6-7". Would this same size (live or not) be adequate for the main tank? This will be a mixed reef tank but I would like to have it deep enough for a goby/shrimp pair to burrow as they please.
4) I am not concerned about having a dsb in the main display (just the refugium), but I do want enough for a goby/shrimp pair. How deep should the main tank substrate be for, example, a watchman goby with pistol shrimp? I have read I should include some small shells for them to reinforce the burrow?
5) If the main sand bed display was maybe 3 inches, is it recommended to include some other sand sifters (ie, stars or similar?) However, I don't want such efficient sifter that deplete life in the sand.
6) Could the possible toxicity issues of a disturbed deep sand bed be an issue for a ~3 inch deep sand substrate in the main display? Obviously, the dsb of 6-7" in the refugium will not be disturbed, but I wasn't sure if I should siphon/mix the sand in the main display of if it should be left alone? Sorry, just getting started here. Thanks,

Kevin

 

[kkcrowe]

also, I forgot to ask how to calculate the amount I would need (depending on depth) for the 12 feet of bottom space on this tank. Thanks.

 

[johniii]

kkcrowe;745154 wrote: also, I forgot to ask how to calculate the amount I would need (depending on depth) for the 12 feet of bottom space on this tank. Thanks.

Brs had a calculator on their site

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

 

[kkcrowe]

thanks. What is Brs?

 

[db366]

 

[kkcrowe]

thanks, db

 

[ralph atl]

kkcrowe;745146 wrote: Hello, everyone. I have done some research but still have some questions. I am setting up my first reef tank, it is 180 gallons (6'x2'x2'). All the plumbing and gear should be done next week and I will be ready to add LR, sand, etc. Although I understand the benefits of biologically active "live" sand, I don't know if I truly need it. Here are a few questions that I had....

1) If the tank will have ~ 150lb of quality live rock (which will be used for cycling), is it really necessary to have "live" sand? For example, couldn't some of the micro life from the live rock, and my dsb refugium populate any sand/substrate (over time)? <span style="color: #ff0000">no, but see next question and answer</span>
2) If I should do "live" sand, should I do all if it in live sand or can do the majority as non-live sand and a small portion as live sand to populate the rest? <span style="color: red">yes, this is a great idea...one that I use...hehehe</span>
3) I was thinking very fine sand (no bigger than 1mm) for my small dsb refugium, at a depth of about 6-7". Would this same size (live or not) be adequate for the main tank? This will be a mixed reef tank but I would like to have it deep enough for a goby/shrimp pair to burrow as they please.
<span style="color: red">2-4 inches...plus, you'll need sugar fine sand for all those wrasses you'll want to keep....</span>
4) I am not concerned about having a dsb in the main display (just the refugium), but I do want enough for a goby/shrimp pair. How deep should the main tank substrate be for, example, a watchman goby with pistol shrimp? I have read I should include some small shells for them to reinforce the burrow? <span style="color: #ff0000">2-4 inches...plus, you'll need sugar fine sand for all those wrasses you'll want to keep....</span>
5) If the main sand bed display was maybe 3 inches, is it recommended to include some other sand sifters (ie, stars or similar?) However, I don't want such efficient sifter that deplete life in the sand. <span style="color: red">no stars! however, super tongan nassarious snails, tiger cumumber, narssarious snails...</span>
6) Could the possible toxicity issues of a disturbed deep sand bed be an issue for a ~3 inch deep sand substrate in the main display? Obviously, the dsb of 6-7" in the refugium will not be disturbed, but I wasn't sure if I should siphon/mix the sand in the main display of if it should be left alone? Sorry, just getting started here. Thanks,
<span style="color: red">very doubtful.......especially with cuc that use sand bed as suggested and shrimp & gobi and wrasses.....</span>
Kevin

<span style="color: red">should be good to go!</span>

 

[kkcrowe]

thx, mysterybox. Much appreciated!

 

[elfloyd]

Mysterybox... You forgot to mention all the wrasses he'll want to keep.

 

[holabird]

Dont forget to put the rock down first and then the sand. You dont want something digging under the rock and having it all fall down. I first put down some slate tile right on the glass and put the rock on that and then put the sand in. The slate helped protect the bottom and gave the live rock something stable to sit on.

 

[eagle9252]

good idea on the slate but what about the white cutting board (star board)

 

[kkcrowe]

thanks for the slate/crate idea. I know to put the rock in first for stabilization but never thought about something like a crate to protect the bottom and really stabilize the live rock.

 

[ralph atl]

elFloyd;747946 wrote: Mysterybox... You forgot to mention all the wrasses he'll want to keep.

that's coming...lol

 

[wmboots]

bpatterson617;748018 wrote: I have also seen people put a layer of egg crate on the bottom of their tanks. From what I understand it allows the rock to kinda lock in place and also protect the glass. Should be cheaper than star board or slate. :up:

Like the idea of egg crate will incorporate in my 150 build

 

[gnashty]

bpatterson617;748018 wrote: I have also seen people put a layer of egg crate on the bottom of their tanks. From what I understand it allows the rock to kinda lock in place and also protect the glass. Should be cheaper than star board or slate. :up:

wmboots;748073 wrote: Like the idea of egg crate will incorporate in my 150 build

Good for aquascape, bad for creating pockets of detritus in your sandbed....I'd skip that one.

 

[gnashty]

bpatterson617;748115 wrote: Makes sense, would it make a difference if you only cut pieces of egg crate that were big enough for the rock to sit on? Or is just putting the rock down before the sand good enough?

Only difference it will make is the issue of pockets of nasties will be limited to under the rock...Id still skip it. You can use PVC to make short risers under the rock to keep it elevated and level and still get some flow.

 

[ichthyoid]

bpatterson617;748115 wrote: Makes sense, would it make a difference if you only cut pieces of egg crate that were big enough for the rock to sit on? Or is just putting the rock down before the sand good enough?

That's ^ how I do it. You can stack several pieces of the eggcrate, and if so, I rotate them some so the grids are offset. Before this, the pistol shrimp would undermine the rock causing it to eventually shift/fall.

I make sure to fill in the eggcrate completely with sand before placing rock on it. The one thing you don't want is a cavity/pocket in the substrate/eggcrate where hydrogen sulfide can collect from anaerobic processes. That can cause big problems.

If you have 'live' rock then 'live' sand is redundant, imo.

If you cycle using a good bacteria source, then neither ^ is needed. Check this out-

http://www.fritzzyme.com/index.php?p=fritzzyme-nitrifying-bacteria">http://www.fritzzyme.com/index.php?p=fritzzyme-nitrifying-bacteria</a>

Where people get into trouble is loading up a new tank that has live rock/recently cycled with too many fish/too soon. A 'system' needs time to adjust, and doing so slowly is usually best.

FYI- Wrasses prefer/need fine sand to bury into. You can add a plastic tray with some fine sand, and use a coarser grade for the rest. Hiding the tray may require some ingenuity.

-Hope this helps