Sump design questions

[gordob]

I'm working on a sump for my 44 gallon tank. I'm using a 10 gallon tank for the sump. (I don't have room for anything larger under my stand, and the main reason I want the sump is for a wave system and for growing macralgae.) I've attached pics of the sump with the baffles already installed. I plan on water from the tank coming into the chamber that only has one baffle separating it from the next. (If you can't tell, teeth are being cut in that baffle.) The second chamber will be the refugium. I plan on having my hang-on-back CPR skimmer with the intake/powerhead portion in the first chamber and the output portion in the refugium chamber. My UV sterilizer will probably be set up the same way on the opposite side from the skimmer. After the refugium, there are three baffles, with the first having teeth cut into it. (The first, second, and fourth baffles are all the same height. The third hangs from the top, with some egg crating for support.) In the last chamber, I'll have a Mag 5 pump as the return pump. It will send water up to a SCWD, that is connected to a pvc piping system like on melevsreef.com.

Here's where it gets tricky: I don't have room in my tank for an overflow box, so I bought one of those specimen containers. The plan is to cut teeth into it, and have it hang on the inside of the tank. I'm planning on putting a Maxi-jet 600 in it, and having it pump water down to the sump. My thoughts were that as long as the last chamber of my sump wasn't very large, I could keep water from overflowing the main tank in the event of a power outage. After testing the sylicone in the sump for leaks, I thought about a potential problem....the Mag 5 is stronger than the Maxi-jet, so it could be emptying the last chamber before the Maxi-jet could fill it up again.

Does anyone have any suggestions or thoughts about this. (I apologize for the long post, but I wanted to explain the whole system.)

Thanks,
Brad

 

[gordob]

Sorry. Pics didn't attach the first time.

Brad
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[reeferdawg]

Have you calculated the head loss for the mag pump? There's a great calculator on ReefCentral that makes it pretty easy.

http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php">http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php</a>

This would give you a good idea of the actual flow the mag 5 would be pushing in your system. The maxi-jet would likely only have a small head loss.

I wish I could give advice on the best way to proceed, but I've just started looking at this kind of stuff. Good luck :cheers:

 

[wbholwell]

You're right- with the Mag 5 having a higher flow rate, your sump will empty faster than your powerhead can fill it. The only solution is to have your sump gravity fed. I recommend buying an aftermarket HOB overflow sized appropriately for your pump. I think Drs. Foster&Smith have them for about $75.

 

[reeferdawg]

Yeah, it would pretty much be impossible to get the flow rates to match with the powerhead. You'll either be draining the sump too fast with the mag 5 or fill it too fast with whatever powerhead you use. You said you don't have room for an overflow box? There's some pretty cool how-to articles online about building your own if you think $75 is too steep. I don't have a propane torch just laying around, though.

 

[gordob]

Thanks guys! The only problem with the HOB overflow is the lack of space in my tank. It just won't fit with the way my rocks are set up. That specimen container is much smaller than those overflows.

Brad

 

[gordob]

Yeah, I saw those DIY articles online, but like you said, I don't have a torch laying around either. I really do like the idea of bending the acrylic, because I would feel more secure with that than the seals if I bonded it together.

 

[gordob]

It looks like I'm going to have to move a rock or two around, which is REALLY not what I wanted to do. Oh well.

Thanks again,
Brad

 

[showtime305]

<span style="color: black;">You really don't want to use a pump to feed your sump. This could easily go from an easy fix to a bad idea that floods your home if not setup/designed properly. If you do use this method you will need to keep your sump water level (capacity) pretty low and set the power in the tank were it can't drop the tank water level below a certain point. Make sure the powerhead in the tank is secure enough so that it doesn&#8217;t drop any lower if one of the pumps do stop working.</span>

 

[gordob]

C'mon AJ! You're supposed to give me better news than that!

Thanks. I actually put a post on the "want to buy" forum for a HOB, so I guess I'm going to scratch the powerhead idea. The more and more I think about it and get feedback on it, the more of a bad idea it sounds like.

Brad

 

[showtime305]

What's up Brad? When are you going to post some tank shots on here? How's the baby?

 

[wbholwell]

GordoB;32599 wrote: Thanks guys! The only problem with the HOB overflow is the lack of space in my tank. It just won't fit with the way my rocks are set up. That specimen container is much smaller than those overflows.

Brad

Brad, you could make your own overflow using two of those specimen containers, a U tube, an Aqua Lifter pump, and a bulkhead fitting. It might not be as pretty as a store-bought HOB overflow, but it'd fit your space requirements.

 

[frewl]

I've got an outer box to an overflow box and all you would have to do is buy an overflow tube and build the inner box.

 

[gordob]

Thanks Bryan! I'll have to look into that.

What's goin' on AJ?! Here ya go with a pic. This one is from Feb. I'll post some more once I get the system finished and can clean the tank up a bit. Our little girl (Riley) is doing great! Everyone told me they grow fast, but WOW! Thanks for asking! How's your family? I was just checking out your website, and it is really nice. You have some nice tanks.

Brad
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[gordob]

How much do you want for that box Billy? Does it hang on the tank? Does it have bulkheads? I'm not extremely familiar with these things, so what controls the amount of gph?

Thanks,
Brad

 

[showtime305]

<span style="color: black;">Wow! Nice and clean. I like the rock work also. My wife and son are both doing well. The kids do grow up fast. Thanks for the compliments on my site. I wish I still had those tanks running but they are a thing of the past now. I'm only running my 10g frag tank right now, but I should be getting to work on my 24g SPS nano pretty soon.</span>

 

[gordob]

Sounds good. Keep us updated. Thanks for the compliments! If/When we have a bigger house, I've got a 135 Oceanic sitting in the garage waiting to be set up with SPS. I can't wait!!!

Brad

 

[frewl]

here it is.

$10, Yes, its bulkhead like, Gravity?(not sure on that one.) I think its pipesize and how far the water line in the box is above the top of the pipe.
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[wbholwell]

GordoB;32677 wrote: I'm not extremely familiar with these things, so what controls the amount of gph?

Actually, your return pump controls the flow rate (gph). The way it works is when the return pump is turned on, water is pumped into the main tank causing the water level to rise. As the water level rises, more water flows through the "teeth" of your overflow. Finally, the flow into the tank reaches equilibrium with the flow through the teeth of your overflow. Overflows have a maximum flow rate, however- they are usually limited by the maximum amount of water that can flow through their teeth and/or the size of the bulkhead/drain fitting.

 

[frewl]

Oh the GPH overall I got tunnel vision on that and just thought he was talking about th box that I was selling. but I think it was rated for about 600 GHP.