Sump flow setup question

[mikesmith34]

Ok I've got the eshopps 200 on my 90. Left side is return. Middle is fuge. Right return. Last week I set it up with a herbie overflow. It had no emergency overflow when set up by LFS. I also wanted to increase flow. I seem to have to much water piling up in the skimmer and fuge chamber while my return is very low. I have dialed back my return line to achieve full siphon on my 1 inch line. Tonight a little water begins coming out of the emergency line so I dialed back the return pump mag9.5 I believe. It seems to have settled out now. My question is after all this reconstruction my flow seems to be just about where I started out:shout: now here is the biggie my return1inch bulkhead coming out of the bottom of my overflow is leaking. It is a very small amount going into the sump. Question should I fix it or leave it alone.??? Next question how do you replace a bulkhead fitting on the bottomed of the overflow on a full tank ? That scares the fecal matter out of me

I hope this makes since I have nobody with any expertise around here so I'm on my on except for you online experts.

 

[nickh06]

Where is your tank drilled? Should be that hard depending on how it's setup. I would def fix it. If left like it is it could cost you big money in the long run. Pics of the overflow would be helpful

 

[mikesmith34]

Tank is bottom drilled for center overflow. One 3/4 and 1 inch. I can get a sump pic tomorrow to give you a better idea of my rambling explanation

 

[nickh06]

Sounds like the same tank I have. Check my build thread and let me know.

 

[super]

I've had a 90 with the same overflow... depends on howwhere its leaking, but I would attempt to snug up the bulkhead first.

If you do have to remove the bulkhead, it should just empty whats behind the black overflow box, not the whole tank. When I had to do the very same thing, I first siphoned out what I could and then it wasn't bad.

 

[mikesmith34]

Nickh06;930518 wrote: Sounds like the same tank I have. Check my build thread and let me know.

It is the same. I used the 1" as the return and the 3/4 as my emergency line for my herbie setup. From my mag 9.5 I used PVC over the top of the back of the tank to 4 return nozzles. My flow setup is new so it may just take some time with" dialing it in".

 

[nickh06]

Super;930522 wrote: I've had a 90 with the same overflow... depends on howwhere its leaking, but I would attempt to snug up the bulkhead first.

If you do have to remove the bulkhead, it should just empty whats behind the black overflow box, not the whole tank. When I had to do the very same thing, I first siphoned out what I could and then it wasn't bad.

+1 shouldn't be too hard. Tighten first, it might work. I couldn't crank my mag 9.5 either had to dial it down but plenty of flow. It was way too much when I opened it up all the way.

 

[ghbrewer]

Could you please clarify between drain and return pipe sizes? I did not see where you stated what size your drain line is. It sounds like your drain pipe is too small in diameter, especially if you have had to lower your return flow.

 

[super]

ghbrewer;930576 wrote: Could you please clarify between drain and return pipe sizes? I did not see where you stated what size your drain line is. It sounds like your drain pipe is too small in diameter, especially if you have had to lower your return flow.

Mikesmith34;930524 wrote: It is the same. I used the 1" as the return and the 3/4 as my emergency line for my herbie setup. From my mag 9.5 I used PVC over the top of the back of the tank to 4 return nozzles.

The standard setup is a 1" drain and a 3/4 return, but he is using both as drains with a herbie setup.

 

[ghbrewer]

Then wouldn't he want/expect flow through both drain pipes if he is wanting to increase the flow by the inclusion of the additional drain. Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems he is exceeding the flow capacities of his primary drain line with the aforementioned pump.

 

[hiimsean]

You're still using 1 1" drain so your flow isn't going to increase. With herbie overflow your just changing the way it drains, more of a fail safe system and a way to quiet it down.

 

[mikesmith34]

Ok so here is the set up. This is the first time I've plumbed anything but it works

Edit: Why can't I post more then 1 pic at a time.

Edit:

Edit:

Edit: Forget it
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<legend> Attached files </legend>

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[jdavid]

With the herbie you have 2 drains, the larger of which (1") is full siphon. The main has a shorter standpipe and you adjust the rate it can drain to where the water level just barely trickles down the emergency drain (3/4").

The difference now is that the main drain is full siphon. Wouldn't that drain faster than before?

 

[mikesmith34]

JDavid;930736 wrote: With the herbie you have 2 drains, the larger of which (1") is full siphon. The main has a shorter standpipe and you adjust the rate it can drain to where the water level just barely trickles down the emergency drain (3/4").

The difference now is that the main drain is full siphon. Wouldn't that drain faster than before?

You can control the siphon with the valve in the pic. I know that you are supposed to adjust till the emergency pipe begins to trickle but i can not make myself do it!! since I'm new at this, it makes me extremely paranoid to know my emergency drain is kicking in.

 

[ghbrewer]

JDavid;930736 wrote: The difference now is that the main drain is full siphon. Wouldn't that drain faster than before?

How do you know he is actually achieving full siphon?

 

[jdavid]

Because he said so in the OP.

 

[mikesmith34]

ghbrewer;930812 wrote: How do you know he is actually achieving full siphon?

The return line no longer has any air in it. It takes a min or two after the return pump is engaged.

 

[ghbrewer]

JDavid;930852 wrote: Because he said so in the OP.

K, I see it now. I the wording had me confused.

 

[ghbrewer]

I'd be interested to see a pic of the piping configuration in the overflow, as well as the overall sump. I have seen the herbie configuration on back drilled tanks, just not bottom drilled tanks. I am assuming he is still utilizing riser pipes, that is what had me thinking that his pipe might not have enough length and/or head pressure to achieve 100% siphon.

Edit:
Is this the configuration? (In the attached Pic)

Edit: I do not want to high jack/detract from this thread any more than I already have, but is this configuration any more efficient than a properly sized durso in your opinion?
I may consider a configuration such as this in my new tank. I like the idea of not having any elbows on the stand pipes.

 

[ghbrewer]

P.S. Here is some data regarding pipe flow. This will outline why I was thinking your pipe may be undersized for your pump, and why you really haven't seem an increase in flow.

Taken from: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-205645.html">http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-205645.html</a>

Maximum Gravitational Vertical Flow - This is what we look for when sizing drains or DIY overflows. The flow under the power of gravity reaches a maximum in the same way an object reaches Terminal Velocity as it falls through the air. The gravitational force is countered by the waters viscosity (resistance to flow) and the frictional resistance of the pipe. The viscosity creates a minimum vertical length to achieve the maximum flow. If the vertical pipe length is less than the minimum, the flow rate will be somewhat less than the pipes maximum potential.


size _GPM __GPH
1/2 = 2.50 = 150
3/4 = 5.63 = 337.5
1.0 = 10.0 = 600
1.25=15.6 = 937.5
1.5 = 22.5 = 1350
2.0 = 40.0 = 2400


Min. Vertical Length
1/2 = 2"
3/4 = 5"
1.0 = 9"
1.25= 14"
1.5 = 20"
2.0 = 36"