Sump plumbing issue

[dawgfan]

Setting up a sump. 75 gallon with an HOB overflow it has 2- 3/4 inch drain pipes. sump is a 20 gallon long with a mag 5 (1/2) return.

Overflow does not seem to get enough water and "gurgles". If i cap one of the drain pipes does not help.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,

 

[jennm]

Standard drain size is 1", although on a 75, usually there's only one, so 2 @ 3/4" should be ample. Typically a 1" drain should be able to handle about 400-600 GPH. I don't know about a 3/4" but with 2 drains that should be plenty for a 75.

A Mag 5 at 4' of head only pushes about 375 gph, less if you've got a 90-degree elbow or two coming up from the return. Too little flow, IMO.

A Mag 9.5 does ~710g at 4' of head - less if there are 90-degree elbows, IMO more suitable for a 75g tank. You want to turn the water 8-10 times per hour.

If the overflows are gurgling, you may need a Stockman modification or similar. Durso might be doable but the Stockman is a bit more compact.

Check this link - it will give visuals

http://www.randystacye.com/dursostandpipe.htm">http://www.randystacye.com/dursostandpipe.htm</a>

Jenn

 

[skriz]

You want your flow through the sump to be nice a slow; I think the Mag5 is fine. You may need to throttle back the overflows a bit and look into a standpipe design. I'm not familiar with the hob overflows, so I'm not sure if that's possible or not.

 

[jennm]

dawgdude;383708 wrote: I ran a mag 3 on my 90g SPS for a couple years.

That could not have been your only source of water movement, though, was it?

Using the opposite thinking, I've seen tanks running perfectly fine with a bunch of powerheads and a HOB skimmer - with no sump or other mechanical/chemical filtration. Doable but it has its problems too.

I do think we agree though that a modification to the drain(s) would likely quell the noise.

Jenn

 

[jennm]

Skriz;383711 wrote: You want your flow through the sump to be nice a slow; I think the Mag5 is fine. You may need to throttle back the overflows a bit and look into a standpipe design. I'm not familiar with the hob overflows, so I'm not sure if that's possible or not.

It's doable with HoB overflows. The link I provided shows a couple of options.

 

[dawgfan]

Is there a drilled hole at the top of the pipe?

 

[smoothie]

Is there air trapped at the top of the bend? If so get small diameter tubing and run it in it through the bend a little to the other side. Probably have to pull it to do this.
Place it back in with the small tubing in it and syphon the water through slowly pulling the tubing out. This should fill the tube completely and allow you to remove any air trapped in once the tubing is at the top of the bend

 

[dawgfan]

Just to be clear, I do have 2 power heads as well. I am having gurgling at the overflow box. I will try the durso pipe and see if that helps. I would like to lower the level in the sump and the mag 5 does not seem to put back any more than is coming in. That said, should I restrict the flow coming in with a ball valve?

 

[son of adam]

Dawgfan;383701 wrote: Setting up a sump. 75 gallon with an HOB overflow it has 2- 3/4 inch drain pipes. sump is a 20 gallon long with a mag 5 (1/2) return.

Overflow does not seem to get enough water and "gurgles". If i cap one of the drain pipes does not help.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,

I had the same prob with my 72. I used a mag 7 as the return, but the mag 5 will be fine. What you are dealing with is air traped in the tube from the HOB to the sump. Correct? Did you hard plumb the drain from the HOB? If you have the flexible hose that is typical of this install, try what worked for me.
I needed to support the hose from the HOB with "bungies" cuz it was to long and the length was not adjustable. To get away from the hose droping down to far and then up again to finish the run, use a bungie or two to support the hose. Then the drain will have a good free fall to the sump. Also get rid of the sounds.

Worked for me and it is good still.

 

[son of adam]

DawgDude knows his stuff yo!

 

[cwalt]

I have a HOB overflow with similar pipe size and using a mag 12 on a 100 g tank - I use a straw and a drink lib at the top to control part of the nise on the top side ( the origal assy was lost after Hurricane) However it would not silence it if the drain pipe is below the water level of my sump.

That causes the return pump to pull water down the darin in stead of letting the water drain by a gavity siphon. I used a fom block on the end of my drain that is approx 2 " above the water level in sump to stop any splash noise in the sump.

You may want to take a look at that along with dealing with the air trap and baffel height that has been suggested

 

[acroholic]

Hate to say it, but HOB overflows are not the way to go for a tank (just my opinion). If you can, I'd consider switching to a Reef Ready tank. Drilled tanks eliminate a huge risk factor related to HOB overflows: losing the siphon and flooding the room.

If it is not possible, money wise, I understand, but there are usually nice deals going on in the FS section on the ARC site.

I know it can be a pain to switch everything over, but once you have owned a RR tank, you'll never own any other kind. At least that has been my experience.

Here is a 75 RR tank/stand for $300. Might get it cheaper with a little bargaining:

http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32385">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32385</a>

Dave

 

[dawgfan]

Dave- money is an issue have to play with the cards i have.

Dawgdude- What you said about the pump not having anything to do with the level of the sump. If I have more water coming in than is being pumped out it will raise the level of the sump no matter what the baffle heights are correct?

 

[jennm]

Dawgdude explained it brilliantly. He's exactly right - the drain cannot "take" more than the pump is giving. Gravity is gravity.

And I also agree with David (Acroholic)... once you've had reef ready, you never go back. I don't like HOB overflows because "overflow" is eventually the operative word. If the siphon fails for any reason, the pump pushes water back up to the tank and if it can't drain down the overflow, it has to go somewhere... onto the floor

Jenn

 

[cwalt]

dawgfan - if you were having that Issue - overflow going faster that return pump , you would see the water level going down in your tank untill the pump put enugh water back in your tank to flowinto the over flow.

This would be a noticable fluctuation in you tank water levels. If you can not get the water levels up in your tank i would see the pump seeming to be an issue. However- the over flow should not be taking water out of the tank faster than the pump can replace it.




try this,

1 - turn off all your return pumps
2 - wait till the water stops flowing thru the overflow
3 - check your water levels - when you are running you should be within 1/4" of the pump off level

4 - At this point you want to reduce the water in your sump untill it is just 1 or 2 drops from going over your first baffel

5 - turn it all back on and make sure you have not lost the siphon on your overflow at watch your water levels in the sump

if it looks low ( a few seconds delay before going over the first baffel) add water to get it to the point of constant flow over the bulkhead


BTW - please chime in and correct if any of this is unclear or incorrect

 

[cr500_af]

Cwalt;383744 wrote:
That causes the return pump to pull water down the darin in stead of letting the water drain by a gavity siphon.

Not trying to nitpick, but this is impossible.

Water travels down the overflow by gravity alone; the return pump can do nothing to the water in the overflow.

 

[basscyn]

Son of Adam;383738 wrote: DawgDude knows his stuff yo!

Word!

 

[roundman]

I did not read every post but if you put some tubing down the drain line in the HOB to let it suck air the gurgle will stop. You will have to move the tube up and down to vind the sweet spot. I used a piece of the hard tubing like on the ice maker.

 

[sailfish]

Here is what has worked for me in the past.

Get a strainer that fits in the pipe by itself and if this by itself does not fix the noise then drill a whole in the top and add rigid airline tubing. You then can adjust the airline up or down till the noise goes away. I use a zip tie to hold the airline at the proper height.

If you can't find the strainer then the airline and zip tie can work for a quick fix.

alt="" />

I like low flow through the sump if you can do it.

Joe

 

[dawgfan]

Thanks all, took info from all, added them together and seem to be up and running.