Sump problems please help!!!

[briandg]

Sorry in advance for the long winded post, but I'm very frustrated. I've been trying to get this thing set up for almost 3 weeks, while having my 55 overstocked with mine and her fish, I need to start moving some over, but hate to with all the bubbles. I thought I'd elaborate a little more.

The overflow pipes are pushing out water at what looks to me like an extreme rate, tons of bubbles and movement in that section of the sump. The skimmer is just set up and I guess in break in mode, not much water is coming out of the outflow on it, I don't know if this is correct, but compared to the overflow drains it's minimal.

I'm not sure of the water level I need in the sump. If I don't put it almost 1 inch above the two outside baffles the return pumps pump the water dry in their section. If I add a little more, the water level in the return section is lower than the other, causing more bubbles to be created when the water spills over. If I increase the level to about an inch above the outer baffles and 1 inch below the middle baffle, the water levels are the same, but microbubbles rush to the pump side before dissipating.

I keep going over the options in my head and am at a total loss. I've done the research but have never set up a sump. I was up till 4 in the morning monday night installing baffles and replumbing. I had to do all this under the stand, because the sump had to be installed through the top of the stand before setting up the tank. I'm at my whit's end. If someone can give me some basic 101 I would greatly appreciate. As I said, I've been researching for over a month, but can't seem to get it right now that I'm doing it. HELP!!

My tanks is a 180 gal aga with corner overflows. The lady I purchased the tank from said both pumps were rated at 600gph but I'm not sure if this is correct or not as the writing has worn off both pumps so I don't know what they are.


Thanks and sorry for the rant.

 

[briandg]

here's a crude drawing of the sump
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[wolfie]

My thought are the same as Big D here. You could T off the return and use 1 pump. Or use 2 smaller pump to keep the return flow down.

 

[briandg]

Thanks for the advice, sounds like an easy solution, like I said, I really don't even know what the rating of the pumps are, any suggestions on the pumps I should purchase, I'd like to run 2 so if one quits, I still have one.

 

[briandg]

By the way Big D checked out the link, the tank looks great!!

 

[wolfie]

pumps ratting are going to be depend on what's your overflow sides, how many 90* angles before the water hit the main tank.

If you let us know that then maybe someone else could jump in and help.

I said someone else, cause I have no clue either.

 

[briandg]

It's an AGA corner overflow, I've heard it's rated at 600 and also I've heard 400 ghp. The sump sits maybe a foot or so under the tank, both returns have 2 90's right after the bulkhead then down to the sump. 3/4" pvc.

 

[briandg]

Thanks, I'll look at the pumps you recommended. I am also reconsidering using the two pumps, I thought about connecting the two lines with ball valves to adjust the flow to each side. I figure if and when the pump goes out, I'll still have the other one for backup. Do you think this is a good idea, or should I go ahead and invest in two smaller pumps?

 

[briandg]

As an added note, I tested the pumps last night to see if that was the problem. I unplugged one pump, therefore there was only one return last night. The reduction in air bubbles was extreme. Again thanks for the help. Wish I didn't live 2 hours away from Atlanta, I'd love to be more involved with the Reef Club.

Thanks
Brian

 

[casper75]

first question
Have you tired filter socks to help with the bubbles,
Second you should have your drains as far away fro the return as possible. I in your pic you have the comming into the middle. Move them to the far right side away from the pump. If your drain pipes can handle the flow then let figure out how to get your sump to . In my opion 600gph is not enough flow for a 180 that is only turning your tank over 3.3 times per hour. Hell I have 5000 gph pump running my 240. I also had 1000 gph through my 65. Lets try and figure out how to keep the micro bubbles out of your tank.

 

[briandg]

Actually it's not a good drawing, the one return that looks like it's going straight down, has a 45 elbow aiming it toward the skimmer, the other pipe is also shooting toward the skimmer. They are also further away than the pic makes them look, it's not to scale. I can't move them much further because I have a UV sterilizer at the end that I didn't draw in. It really won't fit anywhere else but the end because of the way the stand is. I will try a filter sock. The side of the sump closest to the chambers actually has the least amount of microbubbles in the sump. But it seems that when I have both pumps running wide open the water forces through the baffles so quickly it just pushes the microbubbles on through. It's like the flow is going too fast through the baffles. All of the drains and the sump actually are pushing all the water into the half of the tank opposite the return. I was also wondering if I actually have my drain pipes too low in the sump, the water is gushing out underwater and bouncing around everywhere, they are propably about 2 to 3 inches under the water that is 9 inches deep.

 

[briandg]

I forgot to add, I agree, I'd love to have the extra flow rate, but I do have two SEIO M1500's in the display tank giving me an extra 3000gph, so with that and approx 600 (less with head loss) I'm almost at 20 times turnover. Not quite what I'd like, but it's better than the 600 by itself. If I can't get the returns to go right, I could add 1 more powerhead and be at about the same. But if we could figure out how to fully utilize the pumps that would be great.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[casper75]

Brian
I have a total of about 10,000 gallons an hour in my 240 that is turning my tank over about 41 time an hour. Thing you can try and some filter socks, and add a spunge in the first baffle. How far are you from Locust Grove , Ga

 

[casper75]

I am running a 125 gallon sump/fuge on my system the flow through it is around 5000 gph. My macro is growing so fast I swap it and get rid of it all the time. My phosphate levels are 0 in my system. Why use a smaller pump and then have to run a bunch of little power heads an pump to make up the difference. With all the flow I have I am only using 350W an hr for 5500 gph on my return pump and my 2 tunze give me 4500 gph on using 34 watts an hr for both. So no my electric bill isnt that high. As far as contact time with skimmer yes you can use a rec skimmer or you can slow down your feed pump make adjustments to your air flow into the skimmer so many ways to do thing. With all that flow into my fuge everything is doing great. I have mysis, copopods that are 1/4" long so I must be doing something right.

Big D you are running 4825 through your 180 using 263watts and if you figure .12 per KW you are paying 23.04 per mth for your pumps

I am running about 10000 gph through my 240 using 384watts an hour at a cost of 33.64 a mth
so between me and you I am only paying 10.60 a mth less.as far as heat goes the less pumps you us the less heat you have in your tank, and before I got my Tunze I was using seio and the 4 pumps heated my water up by 3 degree. That why I like you less pumps .

And yes I am running a rec skimmer.
It is a custom built 42" tall 10" diameter needle wheel

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[casper75]

I dont know how to edit but I ment to say is I am paying 10.60 more a mth then you

 

[schwaggs]

It is kind of hard to tell from your drawing but is it possible you have your sump installed backwords? I usually place the returns in the smallest section, then baffles, then the returns pull from the largest section of the sump. This does 2 things; 1) keeping the sump topped off becomes less critical - remember the water level in the sump section where the returns pull from drops as water evaporates. 2) since the water movement is slower in a larger section, the micro bubbles have a chance to settle out.

As for pumps, I run 2 Iwaki 50 RLXT pumps for my returns on my 210. 100 total watts for 1200GPH circulation. IMO, you want to shoot for a flow through your sump of about 4-5 times display volume to provide adequate circulation for heating and cooling since your heaters and chiller will be in the in or connected to your sump.

 

[briandg]

Actually, my returns are in the smallest section, sorry for the crude drawing, but the only program I had to do it in was Microsoft Word. The section at the left is where the returns are, the skimmer, overflow drains, and uv sterilizer are in the largest section, with all the water circulating back into the sump as far away as possible from the return section. My sump has only two sections, I'm using a HOB Refugium hanging on the back of my sump, the pump for it is in the return section and the drain for it is in the other section, I didn't include that in my drawing.

 

[briandg]

I tend to agree, there is a world of difference between the return flow with 1 pump compared to 2. I've read in some of the replies where other people have had good luck running higher volume back through the returns, but the simplest solution for me is to run only 1 of the pumps and tee it off. I'll worry about the flow in my display in other ways, at least I'll get rid of the microbubbles. Thanks again to everyone for their advice and the good discussion.

Brian