OK Aquarium fans, I'm in need of some knowledgeable advice (meaning: not opinions if you are not sure) (not wanting to sound like a smart a$$ just want to get it right). I have a 150 Tall w/a 40 breeder as the sump. 40b is 36" long and 17 1/8 wide (inside measure). I have it laid out as follows; Skimmer & filter sock on the left side, 10" wide w/a 10" bubble trap (height) this area holds 7.36 gal, the next area is the return pump section w/the same measurements as the skimmer section and also holds 7.36 gal. The remaining area is the refugeum 16x11x17 1/8 which holds 12.14 gal. I have a Mag 12 piped into a manifold powering; reactor, fuge and return. (I have no 90 elbows all turns are "sweeps" or "swept" 2-45's instead of 90's, the only 90 degree is the "T" to create the manifold).This setup has resulted in a possible "low return flow" scenario. My ATO is running alot to maintain the return area, so as a result, I have had to increase my fuge flow to assist in filling the return pump section for return flow. I have very low "pressure" at the return outlets and very "slow" drain but it does drain. I have 2 of the Jaebo 25's and a Hydor 750 providing alot of flow or current within the tank. My question is, does this seem adequate or would you or do one of the following? A.) do away with the fuge creating a 20gal return area and increase pump size or B.) increase the pump section width and decrease the fuge area. As always, thanks in advance for your comments and opinions.
Sump question(s)
- Thread starter capthutch
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question. do you you have the outputs on the manifold throttled back? if not than gravity will cause most of the water to go through the reactor and fuge. and the amount of flow through the system has nothing to do with how often your ato runs to fill the return section. evaporation causes you to lose water and therefor the waterlevel in your return area drops.
GFO till tumbling and the Fuge area throttled enough to allow the return pump section to fill. I re read your post, the ATO comes on several times an hour maintaining the level within the return section. I'm sure there is some evaporation like in all systems just wouldn't figure it to be that much/often. Thought I had a pump issue w/the Mag 12 but impeller seems fine and end case and pump end are good to.
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yea thats definitely weird your ato should only come on a few times a day not a few times an hour you're losing water somewhere i would check for leaks around the tank.
You only have a 10"x17" area for your return, depending on what ato spacing is between your open and closed switches is how often the ato will kick in. On my tunze, less than 1/4" of water height change is all that is between the on and off. I don't see a problem with the ato coming on several times an hour, better salinity stability IMO.
OK fellers! I wasn't able to respond because I ran out and got another pump to check and see if my Mag 12 was the culprit. I got back w/the Triton 5 and re-plumbed it into the manifold and plugged it in and................nothing! Tore the "supposedly NEW" Triton 5 down and it was burnt up! Someone had burnt there's up and brought it to the store and swapped it out. Went back to the store and grabbed another one and checked it before i left. Plumbed the "new one" into the manifold, plugged it in expecting grand things only to be disappointed. No difference between the Mag 12 and the Triton 5. I had some increased flow to the lineloc but once I cracked open my GFO reactor and fuge the return flow was just as bad or maybe even less! I have a 3/4" pvc check valve in the left side of the manifold that supplies the return line. Supposedly, the check valve actuates (opens) at .05 psi but I am wondering if the internals of the spring loaded check valve may be the culprit? Whats everyone's thoughts?
Edit:
I don't think so John. I have a 1 1/2" home made durso style drain reducing down to a 1". I'm really thinking its a return flow issue
Edit:
I don't think so John. I have a 1 1/2" home made durso style drain reducing down to a 1". I'm really thinking its a return flow issue
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It is not a return pump issue. That is a fact not opinion. What type of ATO do you have?
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Sorry, I misread your op. Do you want to know how to increase flow or should you increase flow?
Edit: I think your flow is to low if you can barely feel the flow in the tank.These are only opinions which is really all you can ask for for the questions asked. Fact Return area does not need to be enlarged in to increase the flow. A couple of factual options 1: Increase pump size or max head pressure it can handle. 2: Reduce the actual head loss occurring.
Both, that's kinda the issue Grouper, I'm at a loss as to why I have such a weak return flow. I had a Mag 9.5 on my 75 and it would blow water out of the display tank. Based on the performance of the 9.5 I kinda figured that the Mag 12 would have been more than adequate but that doesn't seem to be the case. I only have head loss of about 40" vert, based on this I should be at 850 to 900 at the return outlet and I have nowhere near that. I have very little experience w/check valves and I'm wondering if the internals of the check valve are the issue
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I think this your problem Cut that back and send it through the return line. Makes no difference in the route it takes, the water will eventually get to the return section. You may have to actual add more saltwater to the system(not fresh). Because you are probably not maxing out your drain pipe more water is staying in the display thereby decreasing the level in the return area. Make sense?
Here's a picture of the sump set-up Grouper. I am definitely not getting the full effect of the drain back/flow into the return/filter sock area. But I am only going to drain what I'm flowing (returning) into the tank. I understand what you are saying about the fuge area, I could just run a maxijet temporarily for fuge flow. I need the group buy Jaboe DC pump to get here!
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I think this your problem Cut that back and send it through the return line. Makes no difference in the rout it takes the water will eventually get to the return section. You may have to actually add more saltwater to the system(not fresh).
Edit: I'd almost guarantee that is the issue. When more flow is added to the display it's level rises slightly which makes a big difference in the return section level(smaller footprint) I'd say slow the flow through the fuge and give it a few moments to "catch up" and monitor the return section levels.
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Can you give a front pic?CaptHutch;898076 wrote:>class="gc-images" title="image.jpg[/IMG] style="max-width:400px" /></a>
Here's a picture of the sump set-up Grouper
Edit: Call me if you need to 678-873-1971
Check for blockage in the return. I would go one size larger on the check valve too. I love George Fisher Y-check valves a lot more than the traditional swing check vavles fwiw. The loaded internal piston helps it open/close and has a lower pressure loss. Additionaly, a manifold should be larger than the supply feeding it. If you have a 3/4" return, your manifold should be 1" or larger. The feed lines coming off the manifold can be the appropriate size of the equipment inlet. These are just my experiences building very large systems, usually several hundred gallons per minute.
I've checked for blockage(s), in this/my scenario a larger "manifold" (1") would make the current situation even worse in the fact that the "volume" would have increased thereby decreasing my available pressure. The check valve is a piston type and not the swing type. But......I am no expert and appreciate any thoughts/opinions at all. This is what helps me to figure out my issues!
