Sump questions.

[dsprouse]

Hi everyone,
Tomorrow (Sunday) I'll be picking up my first 90 gallon tank. I found it on Craigslist and it comes with a sump and stand. However the sump is only divided into two sections. It comes with another piece of acrylic so I can have three sections but the purpose of this thread is:

to ask the importance of numerous baffles
and if it's divided into three sections would that be enough for a skimmer, fuge, and then return.

Forgive my ignorance when it comes to sumps (and hopefully this is in the right section), but I'm currently at a loss when it comes to how to design this.
- hopefully I can get some pictures of it up tomorrow.

 

[ripped tide]

Pics would help.

 

[rdnelson]

First off....welcome. There is no set way to have a sump. But here are a couple pointers that might help.

Having a bubble trap between your drain/skimmer compartment and the return compartment will help cut down on the bubbles coming back to the tank. If you want a refugium you can get by with just one baffle between the fuge a d return.

Just make sure you leave as much room as you can for the skimmer. They tend to swell up when they get wet. Hehehe.


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[dsprouse]

Thank you rdnelson, I'm fairly excited to have found a forum that responds, as I haven't had the best of luck elsewhere. Anyway, this is the picture I have to work with at the moment (provided by the seller).
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[joseayes]

Welcome!!!
I had used some manufacture designed sumps, but you actually can make it better in design than any other, I would suggest that you could used this sequence in the baffles that you pretend to add/modified
1st Stage: Drain and skimmer
2nd Stage: Bubble trap for microbubbles coming out from skimmer and drain.
3rd Stage: Refugium
4th Stage or section: Bubble trap
last stage could be your return space for the pump
Hope this helps, and also will help the opinion from the people above ^^^

 

[rdnelson]

joseayes;860085 wrote: Welcome!!!
I had used some manufacture designed sumps, but you actually can make it better in design than any other, I would suggest that you could used this sequence in the baffles that you pretend to add/modified
1st Stage: Drain and skimmer
2nd Stage: Bubble trap for microbubbles coming out from skimmer and drain.
3rd Stage: Refugium
4th Stage or section: Bubble trap
last stage could be your return space for the pump
Hope this helps, and also will help the opinion from the people above ^^^

Lots of people do exactly that and it works great. I chose a little different method. If the refugium is in the center all flow must pass through it. This may cause the flow rate to be higher than you desire. I put the return in the middle and it alows me to control how much flow I run through the fuge. I will post a picture in a minute.


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Edit: Here is how I set mine up. I didn't like the way one of the baffles was leaning so after the first pic was taken I cut it out and installed it correctly. Hope this helps.

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[dsprouse]

If the return is in the middle how does the fuge on the side get any flow? Are there two "inputs" going to the sump?

 

[johniii]

dsprouse;860147 wrote: If the return is in the middle how does the fuge on the side get any flow? Are there two "inputs" going to the sump?

You put a tee on the return pump with a gate valve to control the flow

 

[rdnelson]

What John said.

I actually have a X fitting off my return. The right side feeds a ball valve that in turn feeds my skimmer, the left has a ball valve that feeds my fuge and the header for reactors and the one top feeds the return back to the tank. If you go that route, you need to be sure you have an oversized return pump because it is feeding lots of stuff. Here are a couple more pics that might help.
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[picoreefguy]

the fact is that baffels are nice to have but unnessary if you just want to run a basic setup. you can run all your equipment (including a skimmer if you have a good ato to keep the level constant) without baffels but you may have a few microbubbles make it to the tank and you wont be able to run a fuge. im not a big fuge fan in the first place though they have to be fairly large to make a big impact on the tank. but that being said baffels do make it a little easier to keep things clean and organized. and keep in mind that you dont have to have your sump just divided into three "traditional" sections. you can also divide from front to back instead of just left to right. heres a sump i built for someone a few weeks ago which well be installing sometime soon. on the right side in the first pic you can see that there are three sections the first is the inlet where water from the tank will enter the sump through a filter sock the next one is a chamber for biomedia, we'll be using seachems matrix in this one, and the third chamber will house 2 or 3 heaters since all the water has to pass through that area. then the large area in the middle can be used for skimmer or fuge whatever is perfered then there is bubble trap and return pump section.

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[dsprouse]

So, update: I've received the tank and everything is going well. I've divided the sump into three sections, but I have no idea how to connect the tubing from the overflow to the bulkhead. Here are some pictures; I went to my local hardware store and they said they don't have anything that could fit the two different sizes together.

Edit: Forgive my double post, but is the longer white piece needed in the overflow? Or could the water just drain down into the drilled hole in the bottom of the tank?
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[picoreefguy]

you may have to build another durso out of pvc that will fit the bulkhead because it looks like that one was manufactured and is probably some weird non standard size. on a side note what kind of silicone did you use to divide the sump? if you used anything but pure silicone you're in for some trouble. i learned that the hard way i used silicone with mold inhibitor and had invert and coral losses

 

[dsprouse]

I did use 100% silicone (or so the tube says). I've been thinking about building a new one from scratch and the older one is able to adjust length - which may be the source of the odd sizing problem - is having the adjustable length important? and if I go with a fixed size is there a good rule of thumb for length inside the overflow?

 

[picoreefguy]

the adjustability is really for personal preferance but if it were me id building one from scratch id build it so that the very top of the pipe is about an inch below the top of the over flow box. that way the part that actually sucks the water up is only a few inchs from the top and the water wont have to fall very far thus keeping noise to a minimum

 

[dsprouse]

Ok I've made the sump (hopefully some pictures soon) and I added live sand, and mixed my salt water using tap water with prime and instant ocean reef crystals. My water is cloudy to the point of not being able to see the the back of the tank. I was curious if this could be salt or the tank starting to cycle. I have 3 powerheads running, a protein skimmer running, a heater keeping the temperature around 77-78, and a "media sock" on the in put of the sump. One last note, when I took off the "media sock" the water got considerably cloudy; as it had started to clear up just a bit. So, after this wall of text I guess my main concerns are, should I start from scratch with the water or just wait a few days and see what happens. Thanks as always for y'alls expertise.

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[rskillz]

Hey Daniel!

Where is the live rock? I can't see in the tank but I assume you have live rock in there? Live sand has very little beneficial bacteria compared to live rock. You are going to need to add some rock if you want the tank to cycle quickly and have a healthy and thriving bacteria filitration. If there is no rock, you are looking a very long cycle. Are you planning on transferring your livestock from the current nano? Are you waiting on this to cycle before doing that?

Did you premix the salt/water in a different container and then transfer it to the tank? I would never recommend adding it to the tank and mixing it there, grab you a couple of big brutes from lowes that are BPA free, mix it there, wait until it is clear, and the temperature is proper, then xfer it to the tank using a pump.

As far as the cloudiness, shut of the powerheads, as they are of little benefit until you add corals, they are probably making matters worse. You can also turn off the protein skimmer until later on. The cloudiness is certainly not from the tank cycling, that is going to take time. It's likely just the sand/salt mix being whipped up and clearing out.

 

[dsprouse]

Ryan,
Thanks for the quick reply. I have yet to add any live rock (shame on me). However, if you have a good bit in I may be stopping by tomorrow and picking some up. But lacking in large brutes I mixed my water in 5 gallon buckets (super long process). I would fill up the bucket with water then add a few drops of prime to that, then add my salt and stir for a few minutes with a large spoon and mix for a minute or so with a powerhead. After that I poured it into the tank. So, maybe the salt wasn't mixed well enough...

 

[rskillz]

What size sand did you use? Was it very fine sand? I can see that your powerhead is placed pretty low. If you bought very fine sand it could just be getting whipped up by all the flow. Is the sandbed staying pretty calm, or do you see granules moving around along the sand?

 

[dsprouse]

I used fine sand and I used 80 lbs. I have that power head pretty low as I have two higher powered ones in the back up higher - but I just turned off all the powerheads and protein skimmer, so the only flow is the return from the sump. How's your stock of live rock?

 

[cedzaquaddiction]

Welcome aboard to the addiction. LOL...

Just let it sit like that until everything settles, then re-adjust your powerheads so they don't churn up the sand, and turn them back on...

You will want to get that rock in there as soon as you can, as it will hold the beneficial bacteria when your cycle is done. If you can't find live rock, grab some dry rock, and toss it in there after a quick rinse. You won't have any of the quick benefits of already live rock, but in a few months under the right conditions, and yours will be just as live. You'll miss out on some possible good hitchhikers, but will miss out on some of the possible bat hitchhikers...

Dry rock goes for around $2.00 lb while live goes for btw $4.00-$8.00 lb depending on where you get it...

The Dry goods section also has some members selling live rock for good prices as well. Just check for pests before you purchase any live...

Best of luck!!!

Edit: Oh yeah. That long white tube is completely necessary. That overflow was designed that way to be consistent, and quiet. Without it, the splashing and sucking sound will drive you up the wall...