Tank Age

[Eric_n_Ga]

How big of a role does tank age play in the overall scheme of things? Having an older tank with lots of Coraline, established colonies , larger corals and fish , aged biofilter ? Just seems like I'm fighting things now like phosphate that will stabilize more as the tank ages ? Am I correct in assuming that?

 

[lshin037]

I believe so. When your nutrients (nitrates and phosphates) are not in balance, different nuisance algae/bacteria will appear and I believe it's just trying to balance out the nutrients. I never had to dose phosphates but I dosed nitrates to reduce my phosphates in the beginning (nitrate limited) and keep it registered when it bottomed out a few times. My tank is a year old. My phosphates have been 0-0.3 and nitrates at 5 for the last 9 months with nitrates bottoming out twice in that time. I do have an ATS running which has been great at reducing nutrients but had to dial the photoperiod down over time from 20 hours to 12 hours but i believe my maturing corals have something to do with it as well as more and more of them are becoming mini-colonies to colonies.

 

[Adam]

Age is a big part of overall stability. Usually within 9 to 18 months you can consider a system mature. Different things that people do to combat problems can extend it out to the higher end of that time scale or shorten it. Usually after 2 to 3 months people start adding corals to their displays and as that coral grows it becomes part of the nutrient export and I think many people don't take that into consideration.

I have a theory about why we see many reefers battling low nitrate and phosphate. They've set up a form of nutrient export early on in the systems age. A fuge, an ATS, reactors for nitrate and GFO for PO4. In doing so they've found a way to keep those in check and as the coral starts growing the surface area of all the coral increases exponentially. That also means that the export has increased exponentially too. But it's not really an export until the coral is trimmed/fragged and removed from the system. Unlike chaeto or GHA from a scrubber that is removed regularly the coral keeps on using more and more nutrients.

The number of fish & CUC you have along with how much and how often you feed play a role too. Every aspect of keeping a reef tank, no matter how big or small, is a balancing act.

How old is your tank?
What is your bioload?
What types of coral?
What type of CUC do you have?
What type of food do you feed?
How much do you feed at a time?
How often do you feed?
Is the CPR fuge producing?
Beyond the fuge are you doing anything other than water changes to control nutrients?
How often are you doing water changes?
Are you using RODI water for mixing?
If so, when was the last time the filters were changed?
What are your current parameters? (Alk, Cal, Mag, NO3, PO4, Temp, pH)
Post a FTS pic of the display.

Knowing these things will help us help you.

 

[bhodges82]

Age and biodiversity contribute to a lot of successful reef tanks. I've said many times that there is a lot more in the water than we can test for that makes a great tank thrive. Just like it takes time for coral to grow and establish itself, it takes time for bacteria to do the same thing. Different bacteria do different things, it's best to have several different sources, like a rock from a members tank that has been setup for a while, or live rock straight from the ocean. I believe that biodiversity is what's missing from all the new tanks using dry rock or man made rock.

So what are your issues specifically?

 

[Eric_n_Ga]

Most of my problems are due to a small tank I think . Keeping parameters in check . Phosphate mainly . But nitrates too. Everything is always swinging up or down never stable

They are either through the roof or 0 .

Algae issues due to above .

Tanks 11months old . I bottomed out nutrient levels ,killed my macro in my fuge , that caused a spike in phosphate , random coral loss when phosphate spikes .

Getting fuge back up and running now .

 

[bhodges82]

Did you ever trim your macro?

 

[Adam]

The nice thing about smaller tanks is it doesn't take as much water to do a big change and reset things.

What types of corals are you keeping?

@Mom2Many has got this tank size down. Hopefully she can pop in here and give you some advice.

 

[Eric_n_Ga]

The nice thing about smaller tanks is it doesn't take as much water to do a big change and reset things.

What types of corals are you keeping?

@Mom2Many has got this tank size down. Hopefully she can pop in here and give you some advice.

I do weekly water changes of 5 gallon , and a 10 gallon 1time a month . All water from LFS

. Only feed once a week with strained frozen food from rods ,like half a cube . 2 small clowns , 2 small goby's ( ones a court jester that eats algae ) , huge population of hermits ,snails , crabs . Again trying to battle algae .
Stopped feeding reef roids .

As far as coral mainly lps . You name it I got it . It all does fine . Euphyllia , acans,Duncan's , candy cane , blasto , and some zoas,shrooms,pipe organ , tons of gsp . I've lost a goniopora, an alveopora, and countless pieces of various montis .

@Mom2Many is amazing she actually gave me the only surviving sps and I still have it . It hasn't grown much....but it hasn't died .

Only running lights at 50% all blues ,8 hrs a day .

 

[Adam]

I do weekly water changes of 5 gallon , and a 10 gallon 1time a month . All water from LFS

. Only feed once a week with strained frozen food from rods ,like half a cube . 2 small clowns , 2 small goby's ( ones a court jester that eats algae ) , huge population of hermits ,snails , crabs . Again trying to battle algae .
Stopped feeding reef roids .

As far as coral mainly lps . You name it I got it . It all does fine . Euphyllia , acans,Duncan's , candy cane , blasto , and some zoas,shrooms,pipe organ , tons of gsp . I've lost a goniopora, an alveopora, and countless pieces of various montis .

@Mom2Many is amazing she actually gave me the only surviving sps and I still have it . It hasn't grown much....but it hasn't died .

Only running lights at 50% all blues ,8 hrs a day .

Frozen is generally higher in Phosphates. You have enough coral in there to handle some of the load ans LPS generally like higher nutrients. Your fish load is definitely not an issue. You could probably stand to put one more fish in there if you wanted to.

Did the tank go through and "ugly" phase somewhere in the 2 to 5 month mark?
How long have you only been feeding once a week?

 

[Eric_n_Ga]

I've always only feed once a week. I have always tried to not over feed . I was feeding live brine but the science experiment was getting out of hand.

First few months I had no issues . I let the tank cycle , set up my filtration ,skimmer , light cycle . I made a plan and stuck with it and have had good results. Lots of small coral , nothing crazy.

Algae started showing up about 4 or 5 months ago . I've kept it at bay ,but I'm loosing..lol

 

[Adam]

I may be completely off base here. But running a fuge and barely feeding might have delayed the ugly phase. The fuge failing probably got it kicked into gear. To be honest, from the pic above, your tank looks pretty good right now. You should have seen my tank at 6 months. The gha was so long several members said one rock looked like Trumps hair.

I don't know how much your feeding for that one time a week. Trying like a 1/4 teaspoon a day or every other day would definitely do the fish good. You've got plenty of cuc to handle the clean up duty. You haven't said what your nitrate is but I'm betting it's pretty low.

 

[Eric_n_Ga]

I stopped testing them. Lol when the chaeto was doing good it was near zero all the time . It's up a bit now but ..it's so hard to track nitrates with a reg test kit for me .

I'd be happy if I could just get rid of the algae now .

 

[lmm1967]

Is that pic in post #8 current? If so - congrats on having the prettiest ugly tank in north Georgia

 

[Eric_n_Ga]

Is that pic in post #8 current? If so - congrats on having the prettiest ugly tank in north Georgia

That was taken yesterday . Thanks it's driving me nuts

 

[Adam]

Once the GHA gets long enough to sway in the water the best way to get rid of it is to just pull in out with your hand. If it's really attached well it's still healthy. You said you were using Vibrant so it should be weakened.
I'd still feed a little more often and ride it out. Once the fuge is growing chaeto again it will pull the excess out. You never answered Bobby question as to whether or not you ever trimmed the chaeto back at all. Was it growing at all before it all died?

 

[jcook54]

I won't repeat what others have said but I would like to point out that your tank looks really good. It's absolutely loaded with corals and the nuisance algae is true to it's name - a nuisance. It doesn't appear to be at epic levels where things are getting smothered and it's out-of-control. I've got spots in my tank where GHA grows and I just let it because, well, it doesn't cause any harm and the only people that really notice it are my fellow reefers. Man, your tank is full.

I it possible that you are doing too much to correct the problems you identify? When my tank starts to get GHA growing out of control, it's almost always due to lack of maintenance on my part. I'm not saying this is your issue but it usually is mine. When I want to correct it, I just do more frequent water changes with the same amount of new saltwater. Since I carry buckets, there's only so much I can do and it takes time. If I had a smaller tank, I would do a lot more to correct the issue all at once and I'm wondering if that's not the best approach. In my system, I'm forced to change slowly and allow things to happen gradually because I don't want to do 20g water changes (I'm too old). With this in mind, I'd be tempted to not add the refugium just yet. One thing you said that really stick out to me is "Everything is always swinging up or down never stable" and maybe it's stability that you should shoot for. Even if it's stability at high (or low) nutrient levels, at least it would be stable. Adding the refugium back on at this point might just swing everything in the other direction and cause a different set of problem in a few months.

 

[Eric_n_Ga]

Yes I was trimming chaeto weekly baseball size chunks . It got infested with this algae as well. It's tricky , a small ball will roll and stay clean but not remove many nutrients , a large mass gets thick ,slows flow and the gha, bubble ,or what ever else starts growing in it but it sucks up the nutrient.

I have been pulling rocks out scrubbing with a tooth brush , pulling out clumps , everything I can to keep it trimmed back. As far as doing to much ? It's the only thing I do to the tank .. lol clean algae , scrub algae ,do water changes, change filters , if it wasn't for the algae I would just be enjoying my tank ....that's crazy talk .

 

[lmm1967]

what filters? Have tried running with no mechanical filtration?

If you're chaeto is growing - it's preventing other bad stuff from growing - rather than taking it offline I'd think you would be better off adjusting your lighting of your refugium space. Intensity, time & spectrum are all adjustable and can be used to dial in where you want your nutrients.

 

[Mom2Many]

I agree with others that your tank looks good!!! and your maintainance sounds good too. Usually, once a tank is a year old it is considered pretty mature. I do believe going slow at start up makes all the difference. Slowly building the bacteria, slowly adding one coral at a time and a fish at a time. Giving out tank time to find a new balance in feeding, waste and bacteria. I would stop using frozen for now and feed a very few pellets for the fish, every other day, for a while and see if that helps too. I see a huge difference in diatoms and algea even when I rinse frozen. It is always good to plan, test and think...but sometimes I think we over complicate things with these small tanks. One water change changes the whole chemestry of a nano tank. I dont own a test kit. I dont test, chase numbers and such. (I did 15 years ago) But learned it wasnt nessessary if certian things were done weekly and feeding kept light. Every tank has a figerprint, rhythem and such... I dont think it is good to run refugiums and sumps on our very small nanos as often they throw things off balance by collecting debree and all. Bottom line is, coral and our systems like stability... so doing what you need to do to keep things stable is key. No dosing and causing swings in anything, no sumps or refugiums are really needed. Simple is better. By the way, trimming hair algea makes it easier for hermits, snails and urchins to eat it. (have you tested the LFS water by the way?) I also run a little carbon, a little phosguard and a square of polyfilter in my filter. No bio balls or things to grow bacteria on or anything like that. This is all just my humble opinion. I pray it all clears up for you! Blessings and Happy Reefing!