This salt is killing my tank

[putemup]

For years I've been using salinity on my reef tank. Recently I switched to tropic marine. So far I've completed 2 water changes over the last two weeks. Overnight my hard corals look as if they've been hit with a virus. Three of them look as if lose sand is on them but in reality its not, they're just losing color. There obviously must be a change in the chemical makeup of the two salts and my tank hates this tropic marine.

I'm currently making water and off to buy more salinity. Lesson learned here...Stick to what has always worked!!!

 

[danh]

How much big of water changes did you use?

 

[scuba steve]

Have you tried running any tests on the newly mixed water?
I've heard they had issues with ammonia in a few batches before.

 

[putemup]

As for the size of the water changes, I did my usual 10 gallons per week in my 75 gal tank. This is the size I normally used when using salinity.

I haven't tested any levels in the tank. Actually, the only test kit I own are calcium and magnesium. My theory has always been to use a good salt and change the water. Prior to switching salts, the only issues I've ever had were due to bad lights, poor flow or algae caused by me when I got behind on my water changes.

Occasionally, I'll get my levels tested at a store but they've always been perfect with the use of salinity.

 

[bulkrate]

I always check alkalinity when I'm mixing up a water change with a newly opened batch of salt, even if staying on the same brand. Ideally I'll sit down & run all of the Big 3 tests just to make sure the levels of the salt are in the ballpark compared to what's documented on the bag/bucket/box, but that's in a best case - sometimes there's just not 30-45 minutes to drop on a battery of water tests.

But if it's off on calcium or magnesium by even a significant margin it's usually not a big deal when doing 10-20% water changes... but inducing an alk swing is a recipe for pissed off/dying stony corals.

Which of their salt are you using? Bio, Clasic, Pro? Across the board I've had less than stellar results running any maker's "hot"/reefer salts over the past few years.

 

[myreefclub0070]

obviously the chemistry make up in the two salts are different, just like most things sudden change would cause problem.
tank acclamation to new salt is as necessary as fish acclamation especially if you have sensitive corals and they have gotten use to what you have been using my personal opinion.
i'm going to say that i don't think it was bad salt but just that your tank didn't have enough time to get use to the new salt baring you didn't get a bad batch.

 

[bcavalli]

BulkRate;1092607 wrote: I always check alkalinity when I'm mixing up a water change with a newly opened batch of salt, even if staying on the same brand. Ideally I'll sit down & run all of the Big 3 tests just to make sure the levels of the salt are in the ballpark compared to what's documented on the bag/bucket/box, but that's in a best case - sometimes there's just not 30-45 minutes to drop on a battery of water tests.

But if it's off on calcium or magnesium by even a significant margin it's usually not a big deal when doing 10-20% water changes... but inducing an alk swing is a recipe for pissed off/dying stony corals.

Which of their salt are you using? Bio, Clasic, Pro? Across the board I've had less than stellar results running any maker's "hot"/reefer salts over the past few years.

+1

I would be willing to bet the Alk is higher with the Salinity causing an Alk swing.

 

[jennm]

It's imperative to test water regularly with a reliable set of test kits.

It's imperative to have a properly calibrated refractometer or at least a hydrometer that has been tested and known to be accurate, and checked regularly.

The fact that you recently changed salt mixes might just be incidental. Do you know your nitrate and phosphate levels?

Alk swing or pH swing could be part of it but it could be many other things too.

How long are you mixing the new water before using it? Not so much with salt mixes these days but it used to be that one had to mix water for 24 hours before using as there is a chemical reaction that actually creates ammonia.

Do you add the water to the salt, or salt to the water when preparing the mix? It actually makes a difference.

Jenn

 

[wannabeeareefkeeper]

JennM;1092628 wrote: It's imperative to test water regularly with a reliable set of test kits.

It's imperative to have a properly calibrated refractometer or at least a hydrometer that has been tested and known to be accurate, and checked regularly.

The fact that you recently changed salt mixes might just be incidental. Do you know your nitrate and phosphate levels?

Alk swing or pH swing could be part of it but it could be many other things too.

How long are you mixing the new water before using it? Not so much with salt mixes these days but it used to be that one had to mix water for 24 hours before using as there is a chemical reaction that actually creates ammonia.

Do you add the water to the salt, or salt to the water when preparing the mix? It actually makes a difference.

Jenn

"Do you add the water to the salt, or salt to the water when preparing the mix? It actually makes a difference." --- Jenn

Jenn: Can you elaborate on the mixing? I'm interested on the pros/cons of the two methods of mixing. Thank you.

Wannabee

 

[saltwaterwannabe]

I have read that adding water to the salt forces some minerals to precipitate out too soon while in the extremely high saline state. Also have read that some of the minerals will not remain mixed in the water column after they have precipitated even if they are stirred. I should leave this to experienced pros though. I am sure Jenn or someone else knows the answer with much more certainty.

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[putemup]

The salt mix I tried was Tropic Marine Pro.

My technique whether it be right wrong or otherwise was:
-Make my RO water and mix 2 cups of salinity into a 5 gallon bucket. Dissolve the salt in the RO water and within 5 min put it into the tank. For me it places my salinity in the range of 1.024-1.025. Some will say that I need to wait X amount of time before adding salt to the tank. For me, maybe 5 min max before going into the tank has worked perfectly using Salinity for the last 7 years.

I do have a excellent hydrometer that I use to check my salinity maybe once a month. It rarely fluctuates.


Some on this site will say that because I do a 10 gallon water change at least once a week and sometimes twice depending on my schedule, that I'm changing too much water for a 75 gallon tank. For me, any less creates algae issues.


I think Marlon hit it on the nose here. The new salt may be an excellent salt for someone, just not right for me. I'm a firm believer in...Reef tanks are like marriages...They'll have highs, lows and some things will work better than others. In this case, like Marlon said, I threw out something that the wife really liked now I'm in the dog house until I replace it.


I'm sure that there will be critiques that will say nothing should ever grow in my tank but it does and actually thrived until I changed salts. I've been doing things this way for about 7 years with no real issues and as soon as I get this issue straightened out I will go back to doing it the same way I always have because my tank thrives on it.


I purchased another salinity bucket (my old salt) today and conducted a 12.5 gallon water change. I'll see how things pan out over the next few days. I'll test the water chemistry to see where things are at as well but call me crazy but really I think most should be in line with the norms....

 

[myvwrock]

Did you shake and mix the salt before adding it to the ro water?


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[putemup]

I did not shake the new salt before adding it. I had no idea that salt in buckets could or even needed to be shaken. The weight of the bucket feels like it's over 100 lbs. Lol... I was under the assumption that the salt was pre-mixed. In approximately seven years, I've never once shook or even mixed salinity.

 

[dball711]

I have used Salinity for years and never shaken prior to adding water. This goes for any salt mix in the 20+ years I have been in the hobby, not even sure how this could be done practically to any level of effectiveness. My caution is in using a hydrometer (not very accurate) over a refractometer. Also not sure only mixing fro 5 minutes is a best practice, I don't mix mine for long (about 4-6 hours) but feel 5 minutes is way too short a time (in only 5 minutes the water is still milky white, doesn't look like its completely dissolved).

 

[putemup]

I apologize I used the wrong wording....I use a refractometer to check my salinity levels. of my tank.

As for the dissolving qualities of the salt, once poured into the tank there's maybe a teaspoon of salt left undissolved in the mixing bucket. I'll generally take another cup of water out of the tank to mix it real quick before adding it back in. The cloudiness of the bucket water is minimal and generally clears in the display in about an hour.

Your practice does sound more sound than mine. I have noticed that some of my soft corals will close for an hour or so once the new water is added before opening back up. The display is slightly cloudy. Since I always conduct water changes at night to keep from disturbing my fish the issues are practically unnoticeable and definitely before I wake up everything is back to normal.

I honestly think that the use of what I believe is an excellent salt (salinity), good lights, circulation and the frequent water changes I do weekly, offsets some of my flaws in the hobby.

The problem I'm having now is that I don't know how to frag anything. Although it isn't an issue today, it will be for a few of my corals within 3-6 months.

 

[danh]

Bcavalli;1092615 wrote: +1

I would be willing to bet the Alk is higher with the Salinity causing an Alk swing.

A 10g water change on a 75g tank.. Let's say his alk is low at 7dkh and the new water is high at 10dkh. 13.33% water change. The resulting water is 9.6 dkh. Make it even more of a difference. 6 and 11, results in 10.3 after a 13.33% water change. Is that enough of change to cause the results he's describing? I'm not familiar with how a water change like that being dumped in to the tank dissipates, but I wouldn't expect it's worse than 2 part dosing.

13.33% water change I wouldn't expect is too quick of an acclimation to another salt. I may be wrong....

 

[bulkrate]

I've never run into issues switching salts so long as I stick to a 10-20% change regimen each week. But I still find I need to dose alk daily, and mag/calcium once or twice a week to keep levels steady. Admittedly I do have a lot of macroalgae making up the total biomass in my system & that has its own particular needs compared to a coral-only setup.

Just a note: On second thought I think the math on that kind of water change would result in something more like this [10gallons(10dkh) + 65gallons(7.5dkh)] / 75 gallons = 7.8dkh. In which case my concern listed in a previous post above is complete hooey until you start pushing into +35% water changes or are mixing up a reef salt with a significantly elevated alkalinity level.

 

[danh]

My math was slightly off maybe because I considered the entire volume at the beginning level rather than the volume minus the water change., but the impact is the same. Low at a 13% water change.

 

[putemup]

I think I figured out what went wrong...

I began examining my tank and noticed that a few of my hard corals close to my return pumps looked as if they had a virus on them whereas the same exact coral on the opposite side of the tank looked healthy. I'm thinking that my 5 min salt mixing technique may be okay for salinty but when using tropic marine pro it may not be recommended. My guess is that some of the tropic marine didn't have a chance to dissolve properly and settled on my corals closest to my return outlets. Once the undissolved salt settled on my hard corals, it killed the portions it landed on.

I will continue to use my 5 min technique just as I always have for salinity but for tropic marine pro, I may have to extend it to at least an hour...LOL

 

[reefdawg21]

WannabeeaReefKeeper;1092648 wrote: "Do you add the water to the salt, or salt to the water when preparing the mix? It actually makes a difference." --- Jenn

Jenn: Can you elaborate on the mixing? I'm interested on the pros/cons of the two methods of mixing. Thank you.

Wannabee

+1 on this! Very interested and curious,