Two part in top off

[morganatlanta]

I've been dosing two part (Seachem Reef Carbonate and Reef Complete) by adding Reef Complete to my top off water and adding Reef Carbonate manually once a week or so. I'd like to automate dosing them both, but without adding dosing pumps. I don't think I can mix them both together in the top off water, but is there any reason I can't just have two top off water bins and put the Alk in one and Calc in the other? I have the one top off pump come on four times a day now, so I could switch that to use two top off pumps, switched on two times a day on one and two times on the other. It seems like a pretty safe way to dose two part-- low likelihood of over dosing. I have to fill the top off bins roughly weekly anyway, so it is no big deal to add the supplements to the water. Does anyone see any problems with this idea?

 

[rskillz]

I don't see any issue with it at a glance. In fact, when my salinity is a bit low, I add a scoop of salt to my top off to slowly up the salinity and help with water lost by wet skimming and fragging/bagging.

Both may be a really bad idea, haha. Maybe someone who knows more than us will chime in.

 

[weaglereefer]

Sounds like it will work, but keep in mind, top off levels may change seasonally and that would in turn affect the amount you're dosing. You'll basically be doing diluted 2part dosing without the failsafes that a controller monitoring pH would provide.

I would keep doing it manually, or invest in a dosing setup, but that's just me personally. Lots of people do things different ways in reefing, and if it works for you and you are comfortable with the risks, then go for it!

What kind of pumps do you use for top off? If it's an aqualifter or other external pump, I think that would be better. If it's a maxijet or other internal pump, I think there is a risk for the pump getting calcium build up inside it and eventually not working. You would not notice because the tank would still be topped off when the next pump turns on, but you would get a 00 dosing of one part, and a double dosing of the other.

One last thing, the evaporation amounts will be different for day and night. How will you be sure that you're getting the proper ratios?

 

[brianjfinn]

weaglereefer;610831 wrote: Sounds like it will work, but keep in mind, top off levels may change seasonally and that would in turn affect the amount you're dosing. You'll basically be doing diluted 2part dosing without the failsafes that a controller monitoring pH would provide.

I would keep doing it manually, or invest in a dosing setup, but that's just me personally. Lots of people do things different ways in reefing, and if it works for you and you are comfortable with the risks, then go for it!

What kind of pumps do you use for top off? If it's an aqualifter or other external pump, I think that would be better. If it's a maxijet or other internal pump, I think there is a risk for the pump getting calcium build up inside it and eventually not working. You would not notice because the tank would still be topped off when the next pump turns on, but you would get a 00 dosing of one part, and a double dosing of the other.

One last thing, the evaporation amounts will be different for day and night. How will you be sure that you're getting the proper ratios?

It sounds to me like he has his pumps on a timer, not a float switch. If that's the case, then he'd be getting a 00 dosing of one part, but still the same dosing of the second. Also, the top off should be constant both day and night.

 

[darcurr]

The trouble I see is in keeping the correct levels of calc and alk. I wish dosing was something that could be done easy, but it's not the case. I just don't see how to keep the levels consistant with your method. Peristalic pumps seem the best route, other than the cost. Peronally, I just saved till I could afford a pair of pumps.

 

[enderg60]

what you will need for a cheapo dosing

float switch ATO
2x aqualifter pumps
2x holding tanks

attach the float switch to both aqualifters so they activate at the same time. Fill both tanks with the same amount of water and add the amounts of alk and calc to each(you can do the math for how much, just cut your evap rate in half for each tank) this will ensure even dosing. then just make sure the outlets are at opposite ends of the sump.

OR just get two timers and set the aqualifters to dose the needed amounts without messing with the ATO at all.

 

[brianjfinn]

EnderG60;610894 wrote: what you will need for a cheapo dosing

float switch ATO
2x aqualifter pumps
2x holding tanks

attach the float switch to both aqualifters so they activate at the same time. Fill both tanks with the same amount of water and add the amounts of alk and calc to each(you can do the math for how much, just cut your evap rate in half for each tank) this will ensure even dosing. then just make sure the outlets are at opposite ends of the sump.

OR just get two timers and set the aqualifters to dose the needed amounts without messing with the ATO at all.

I think your last statement encompasses what he's going for, except with only one timer (I'm assuming.)

I definitely think it's possible, but you have to be careful to minimize the chance of overdosing.

 

[morganatlanta]

Think of the set up as basically two ATO systems, one ATO would have Alk added to the water, and one ATO would have Calc added. I'd put them on different timers so that I could ensure they each had a chance to put water in a couple times a day, and would add the Alk and Calc at different times (as suggested by Seachem), say bin one at 02:00 and 14:00, bin two at 08:00 and 20:00. The times, durations and flow rates for each ATO could be varied to make sure they each put in roughly the same amount of water as the other every day, which I assume I could dial in over time.

The worst case scenario is the same as the worst case scenario for any ATO, that the float switch sticks and it dumps the whole bin of freshwater in. In that case, the fact that the water had some Alk or Calc is probably the least of my problems, as my salinity would have just dropped and I'd have water on the floor because my sump would probably overflow. Since I refill the bins manually every week, the worse case is limited to the content of a full single bin (about 7 gallons). The max over-dosage that could possibly happen would be one week's worth of dosing (one full freshwater bin), which is the standard now anyway because I'm only dosing the Alk once or twice a week manually. I'd have to tune the amounts of Alk and Calc that I'm adding to the bins so that it matches the rate that it is depleted, but I figure I could dial that in over time, and that is no different than dosing manually. Obviously this won't give the same precision control that a Calcium reactor and controller setup would give, but it seems like it would be better than a once a week manual dump of Alk and/or Calc.

I should mention that everything I have has to fit in my cabinet. Since an ATO that will hold a weeks worth of water is key to me, I've got to take up that space anyway. The question is do I have two separate bins/pumps/timers/floatswitches or just one? Total volume of the ATO would be the same either way.

I should also mention that this is a young mixed reef, not a ton of SPS (yet) and no clams (yet), so my uptake rates of calcium are not huge.