Used apex cost - Opinions wanted

[miktrav]

Let me start by saying I don't own an apex and I am not trying to sell one. That being out of the way, I would like your opinions on the cost of a used apex classic with ald and probe and the afs system. All other equipment is standard. Your input will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks. Michael

 

[miktrav]

I am about to make an offer on a unit and any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bcavalli]

An Apex will greatly imporove your chances of success in this hobby. However, it will never replace good housekeeping skills and testing. But, it will enable you to keep parameters in check and alert you to issues. Ive had my tank up and running with an Apex for almost 4 years and never needed a tank sitter for vacations and there are a million other reasons why an Apex is incredibly valuable.

 

[miktrav]

No question about me getting it. I am just wondering if $580 for the unit as described is too much and should I see if I can get an $80 price cut.

 

[bcavalli]

I'm not knocking the price. But, a new Apex classic is $549 includes a warranty. The Ald is $75 and feeder is $99. Most used Apex classics I've seen up sale (which are hard to come by) are around $300 to $350.

 

[blind1993]

Which probes? Are they lab grade or standard?

 

[miktrav]

Ok. Maybe I will buy new then. I already have an ALD module anyway.

 

[miktrav]

The probes are temp probe and lab grade pH.

 

[Adam]

miktrav;1115378 wrote: The probes are temp probe and lab grade pH.

Without a Lab grade ORP & Salinity I think that price is a bit high. Also unless you plan on having more than 4 leak probes you'll have no use for a 2nd ALD. So you'll be looking to sell one. Brett's numbers for used are right in line with what I've seen.

 

[miktrav]

Thank you guys.

 

[ricky5415]

Just make sure that everything works good if u decides to buy used. If it is not much different in prices, go with a new one

 

[miktrav]

I may pick up the latest model at Atlanta Aquarium instead of waiting for used.

 

[snowmansnow]

I tend to agree with you here.... if you can get a new one without it crippling your aqua budget then do it.
There is a learning curve associated with any controller, but I think you'll enjoy it. The one thing to remember is try and build redundancy into the thing just in case it fails, especially with heaters and anything associated with dosing alk

 

[hn1]

Call it a newb question... but why do you need an Apex? Manual testing and cleaning are way cheaper and more accurate long term.

 

[Adam]

The question shouldn't be why you need one but why you want one. There are many of successful tanks that don't use a controller. There are also many people that don't want or trust them and have very nice, thriving systems. For the most part testing and cleaning are still done done manually.

What a controller offers is the ability to control most if not all the electrical components in the system and notify you of problems if you not home. There are also times it will notify you before you can see an issue even if you are right in front of the tank. There are too many things they do to describe in detail, but I'll offer one.

ATO Automatic Top Off. While there are a ton of different ways to setup an ATO here's mine. I use a Tunze Osmolator plugged into an Energy Bar. This ATO uses a primary optical sensor in the sump to detect the water level and there is a backup float sensor that will shut the unit down if the water level is to high while also sending out an audible alarm, this is all done without the APEX.
Now here is what I do with the Apex. When the main pump is turned of for any reason the ATO is turned off as well. When the pump comes back on there is a 2.5 minute delay before the ATO gets turned back on. There is another high level float switch in the sump. If for whatever reason the Tunze sensors fail this will still shut down the ATO. My reservoir is a 32 gallon brute can and it has a low level switch. If that switch trips it will also turn off the ATO, this will save the pump. Now on top of all that, if any of the float switches connected to the Apex trip I get an email and a text message.

This is just one facet of a pretty complex system there a so many things it can do. Heaters, chillers, lights, pumps... But then there are the people that say "Well what if the Apex fails". Within 10 minutes of the Apex losing it's internet connection you get alerted. If the power is still on the Energy Bars will stay in the default state you have previously set for them. If the power is out... well now you know that its out if you're not home.

In the end you have to decide if you want one or not.

 

[snowmansnow]

HN1;1115431 wrote: Call it a newb question... but why do you need an Apex? Manual testing and cleaning are way cheaper and more accurate long term.

i agree with the post above. it all has to do with what you want to do with it. Note that testing isn't really in the equation for most users, I mean, there are salinity probes, but other than that and PH (which I use to control a calcium reactor and for fail safes in the tank) there isn't a lot of parameter monitoring going on. As far as i know there isn't an apex module that cleans anything (although that would be rad).

For me, I'm a techy kind of person. I love being able to check on the tank while I'm at work. I just log on and see whats going on. If I desired to do so I could even see a live feed from anywhere in the world.

So to answer the question in my own way let me explain what MY apex does (although some are far more advanced and deep into it than I am).

1) It dictates when my CaRx is active via a ph probe in the reactor. related to this it also will shut the reactor off if the PH in the tank drops below a preset number just in case the aquarium plants regulator gets stuck on for some reason.

2) I use it as a light timer. I don't have a fancy light setup. Just a 8 lamp t5 ATI sun power, but the Apex tells it when to come on and go off. In addition to that it will also shut the lights completely off if the Temp in the main display reaches a determined value, and allow them to come back on once the tank cools down. (this hasn't happened, but at least I know my water won't boil because of light heat).

3) It allows a heater to be active between certain values of temp (although the heater has a self contained thermostat as a fail safe JUST IN CASE the apex gets stuck on for some reason).

4) I have also used it as a dimmer when I did LED lights to ramp up and down.

5) I've used the moonlight modules that simulate lunar phases. While I don't believe it makes any difference to animals, it was cool).

6) I've used it to control a kalk reactor stirrer so that if the PH gets high enough the reactor shuts down and doesn't push it higher (just as a fail safe).

all in all its just a gadget. I still check parameters by hand very often, do lots of water changes, feed manually, and observe observe observe, but the apex just gives me a layer of tech I enjoy and am comfortable with. I guess it streamlines everything into a single flow should I need it.

again, yes, many successful tanks are maintained without one, however I think it just makes long term reef keeping success more likely (as LONG as there is a redundant fail safe on the tech which you'd need anyway).

B

 

[hn1]

Thanks Adam and Brandon. That is very helpful.

Sorry to the OP for the tangent.