Vertex LED Video from BRS

[snowmansnow]

Since there has been so much LED speak going on I wanted to share this. Its a new video concerning a fixture from Vertex.

<div class="gc_ifarem_title">In Depth Vertex Illumina LED Demo BRSTV - YouTube</div><iframe style="width: 70%; height: 400px; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/eJOlYH3jS_A"></iframe>

 

[no1bubba]

Question is what kind of LED's the ones discussed here demand a lot more $$ than the MM LED's most of us are unhappy with. Buy cheap, buy twice. I thought I had learned. I put my big money in the tank, stand and equipment and said I would get buy for two years and then make the big investment in lights. so what am I doing now after the MM LED purchase, digging out my old t5's and adding them, just did it last night. I took before and after pictures and will take more at the first week and see what we can see. Just had to put some action behind my complaints. Bubba

 

[ripped tide]

I think I'll stick with MH:t5 untill plasmas come around a little bit more.

 

[mvm]

LEDs give incredible par. That's not the problem with them.

 

[acroholic]

This looks like a nicely built fixture, but why are they only including white and blue LEDs? That mix just doesn't cut it for me after owning Radions. You can add red/green at additional cost, but to me, they should be included at the getgo. It diminishes the value if you have to spend an additional $300-$400 to outfit it the way it should. The above JMO.

 

[falos]

Acroholic;781550 wrote: This looks like a nicely built fixture, but why are they only including white and blue LEDs? That mix just doesn't cut it for me after owning Radions. You can add red/green at additional cost, but to me, they should be included at the getgo. It diminishes the value if you have to spend an additional $300-$400 to outfit it the way it should. The above JMO.

I have to disagree with you Dave
The raidons are good and the dusk dawn is nice but I don't thank the raidons have enuf power in the red green spectrum to have eny effect on the coral besides what the necked eye can tell reason I say this
Most people who have problems with led run blue lights at a much higher level then the whites trying to git the most pop out of there corals and in turn see less growth and darker colors.in sps.
They have less growth because the corals are burning out from internal heat producing a lower amount of sugar during the photo period and not meeting there daily needs for the day.
the darker colors come from the corals producing more9 Symbiodinium a brown alge so the coral can absorb more light but end up generating heat and just like our bodies coral can maintain a constant bodie temperature and the low white levels give the coral a fever causing them to shut down sugar production.
In lps the are use to a bluer light with less white as they usuly occure in deeper water and have adapted
before raidon and ai a company called ecoray made fixtures with 30 w/30 b 1w chips that could not be dimmed and would grow sps at 30" with great color and growth had a 14k look it wasent until the controller that led started giting a bad rap

Also thank green and red led are used as plant grow lights so if there was enuf light from the chips to effect the corals wouldn't alge be a major issue as the light is more tallerd to there needs
Jmtc

 

[grouper therapy]

alcatoe;781610 wrote: I agree with your statement. In my research, I have read that the reds and greens produce unwanted algae.

I use the mm units and as long as you run the whites @ a high % as equal to the blues % for for the duration of the photo period (I run 100% white and blue for about 4 hours a day - ramped up to 100% from 5%), imo you should have no issues with color and growth. I do have 60 optics on all 3 units -165 chips.

Again, this has been my experience. I switched from 2 x mh and 4 x t5 and my growth and color has increased noticeably over the last 2 mths.

While you obviously did not experience any slowing of growth, the growth you experienced may have taken place if the other lights had been used in the same time frame. Without some control unit to gauge from your experience is anecdotal.

 

[snowmansnow]

Acroholic;781550 wrote: This looks like a nicely built fixture, but why are they only including white and blue LEDs? That mix just doesn't cut it for me after owning Radions. You can add red/green at additional cost, but to me, they should be included at the getgo. It diminishes the value if you have to spend an additional $300-$400 to outfit it the way it should. The above JMO.

I agree, and maybe I'm dead wrong, but it seems you're getting a little more value compared to other units...? The 4foot unit is 1684. I know thats a chunk of change... but..

2 Radions will run around 1500, and is two even enough for a 4foot tank?

it would take 4 AIs and end up around 1600. (but this is without any controllability)

I donno... I guess it all evens out now that I look at the numbers....

I wonder HOW GOOD a custom vertex unit WOULD BE... Like a bunch of other folks I'm waiting on some long term proof.... I suppose that will come with time and technology

B

Edit:

alcatoe;781643 wrote: I agree there would have been some growth from the other lights, how much I do not know... I would not say my experience is "anecdotal" though. I commented based on my observation in my system. In my opinion, I have seen more or should I say faster growth with the leds vs the mh and t5's. Not knocking mh or t5s, they do work well. However, in my opinion, the leds have worked out better for my setup for now.

Keep up the observation... without folks like you sticking with LEDs we won't know how the corals react long term! By the way.. how long have the LEDs been on your tank ? Thanks

 

[acroholic]

alcatoe;781610 wrote: I agree with your statement. In my research, I have read that the reds and greens produce unwanted algae.

That has not been my experience running Radions with red and green LEDs at all. Actually, the red and green LEDs allow a more realistic daylight spectrum, and allow the Radions to be dialed in at whatever Kelvin rating you want using the EcoTech configuration Utility. That is another feature of the Radions that is truly awesome: the ability to program any Kelvin rating you want for any period of time you want in your photoperiod.

Coral growth rate is about the same, but coral color is far better using a mix of five LED colors vs only white and blue. I like my Radions much more than my AIs, so I speak from owning and using both types of fixtures.

And I have not noticed any particular increase or decease in algae production having used AIs for six months, and now having used Radions for 6 months. If you would not mind, I'd like to see any links citing increased algae production from red/green LED use you have seen, as that is a new one on me. Never read that myself, and would be curious to read them myself.

 

[acroholic]

Additionally, if you look at emerging manufacturing trends in LED fixtures, you will see the trend is going away from just blue/white configurations, and towards multiple color setups. Aqua Illuminations is releasing their new, multi color, 8 LED fixture Vega soon, The Radion is a five LED array, and can go up to 8. ReefTech's new LED fixture is multiple LED colors as well, 8 I think. There are others.

The strictly blue/white LED fixture will be a rare thing pretty soon if you see what the manufacturers are doing. I would guess because they have identified the inherent limitations this type of setup has on coral color.

Blue/white LD lights can grow coral no argument there, but coral color is much better under multi color LEDs.

 

[grouper therapy]

alcatoe;781643 wrote: I agree there would have been some growth from the other lights, how much I do not know... I would not say my experience is "anecdotal" though. I commented based on my observation in my system. In my opinion, I have seen more or should I say faster growth with the leds vs the mh and t5's. Not knocking mh or t5s, they do work well. However, in my opinion, the leds have worked out better for my setup for now.

No doubt your observation is accurate but there are other factors that could have sparked the better growth rate of your corals. With out a constant monitoring of those factors your observations or anyone else would be rendered anecdotal. It doesn't negate your opinion just doesn't nail it down as fact. That all said I am glad you are having a positive experience with your system:up:

 

[falos]

If you look in to most plant grow led fixtures youl see they run red and green lights because the react with the spectrum that chlorophyll beads for the best growth and if I'm not mastaken I may be but marine alge has chlorophyll so it should grow at a faster rate if exposed to a red green spectrum
Didn't you run 5500-6500k lamps on your planted tanks?

 

[acroholic]

SnowManSnow;781645 wrote: I agree, and maybe I'm dead wrong, but it seems you're getting a little more value compared to other units...? The 4foot unit is 1684. I know thats a chunk of change... but..

2 Radions will run around 1500, and is two even enough for a 4foot tank?

it would take 4 AIs and end up around 1600. (but this is without any controllability)

I donno... I guess it all evens out now that I look at the numbers....

I wonder HOW GOOD a custom vertex unit WOULD BE... Like a bunch of other folks I'm waiting on some long term proof.... I suppose that will come with time and technology

B

It probably is a good value, if you are looking at the cost per LED like they did on the video, but to me, that is a pretty cold and too objective way of viewing it. Personally, I have to look at how a fixture performs overall, meaning OK it grows corals, but how do my corals look under it? If all I am after is good coral growth under LEDs, then no problem, go with Sol Blues, or the Vertex, or any fixture stuffed full of blue/white LEDs. Or if all I am after is good coral growth under halides, then I'll just stick a 10K bulb on there and I'll have it. But with Halides or LEDs, I want color presentation pleasing to my eye.

That is why I'd never own a strictly 10K halide setup or a white/blue LED fixture any more, because I know from experience there are superior setups out there, like Radium Halides, or multi color LED fixtures. If the difference is just a few hundred dollars either way, that is a drop in the bucket in this hobby, and we all know that.

I've never seen any reported quality issues with the Vertex product lineup. I'm sure this fixture is very well built, but If I were to buy one, I would have to fork over the extra money to buy/install the red and green LED Modules they sell as an add-on to the unit. Go to the BRS Website and look at the Vertex LED Line. They offer additional color module upgrades for this fixture. I'd never purchase this light as-is because it is blue/white only, knowing what I know now.

 

[snowmansnow]

Acroholic;781694 wrote: I would have to fork over the extra money to buy/install the red and green LED Modules they sell as an add-on to the unit. Go to the BRS Website and look at the Vertex LED Line. They offer additional color module upgrades for this fixture. I'd never purchase this light as-is because it is blue/white only, knowing what I know now.

I COMPLETELY agree with this... There is just the added red though right? I saw a blue .. but I think the fixture comes OEM with 2 blues..

Edit: and.. did you get how MANY of those add ons you can add? I couldn't find it just glancing at the specs at work today

 

[maelstrom79]

I just wanted to mention that BRS is running a big sale on a vertex SR 200 5 ft fixture, check out the clearance section today.

 

[bluespot]

I am currently running 2 Maxspect Mazarra P series on my 92g corner tank. I am adding a third today to help the coverage area. One of the main features of the lights that sold me was the use of other colors than just cool white and blue. That just seems a little too sterile to me (just my opinion, please don't crucify me!). The units have warm white, cool white, blue, royal blue, and actinic purple. It has 4 independent channels that can be adjusted to give you whatever "look" you want. I dont know how my growth compares to MH and/or T5 but I do know I am happy with growth rate and coral color.

The LED chips are easily changed out and are available in other colors not included in original unit for about 15 bucks an LED. There are cyan, green, fiji purple, a third white option, and red available. I plan to put a red in each unit for a more complete color spectrum. The actinics look like they may have a little red to them already. I dont have pure red or green but do have a good spread of color and havent had an issue with algae.