What’s it take to keep a dragonette fed in a smaller system?

[00Dan]

I’m curious if anyone has had success with a mandarin in a nano. I know the conventional wisdom is 70 pounds of live rock to sustain the necessary pod population.

My Nuvo 40 (~28 gal water volume) is set up with two refugium chambers (red ogo and ulva) and one rear chamber with rock rubble. Is that amount of space sufficient to keep the population up, or would I have to resign myself to culturing them if I’m determined to make this happen?

if anyone has made a similar system work, what was your setup and how much seeding did you do?

 

[ActiveAngel]

Good luck, I’m watching this thread! In my experience, what you’re trying to bite off may be way more trouble than it is worth.

Not to mention, it’s super expensive to buy pods to keep them alive long term if it fails. Most Dragonets will eat thousands and thousands of pods daily. And as you mentioned, you really need that breeding population.

Good luck! 28g with 2 fuges... that sounds maybe possible with enough time, depending on fuge size and breeding maybe 6+ months in advance.... and maybe if you choose a ruby dragonet or other nano variety.

 

[bhodges82]

Heisenberg Aquatics has a very good pod selection, you could start a scheduled purchase and maintain the population. @kbuck

 

[00Dan]

Good luck, I’m watching this thread! In my experience, what you’re trying to bite off may be way more trouble than it is worth.

Not to mention, it’s super expensive to buy pods to keep them alive long term if it fails. Most Dragonets will eat thousands and thousands of pods daily. And as you mentioned, you really need that breeding population.

Good luck! 28g with 2 fuges... that sounds maybe possible with enough time, depending on fuge size and breeding maybe 6+ months in advance.... and maybe if you choose a ruby dragonet or other nano variety.

The tank supported a healthy population of amphipods while it was fallow, but a single blenny was sufficient to predate them down to the point I only see a few at night now, and I haven’t seen an adult in while. Thats the one data point that makes me question this whole endeavor, but if I abandon it I’m right where I started - without a mandarin.

 

[Rainblood]

Following as well and I hope you do it.
I have the same tank and initially researched the prospect of having a mandarin because they are so beautiful but in the end decided against it because it didn't seem feasible.
My best conclusion was to add a refugium, hotel and find a baby(ish) tank-raised mandarin that ate frozen with the expectation of buying pods every month to supplement the tank population. Or buy a larger tank, lol.

 

[BlennyTime]

ORA has a captive bred mandarin dragonette that is supposed to be hardier and already trained to eat regular tank food such as frozen shrimp and pellets. People seem to have pretty good luck with them. That would probably be your best bet.

 

[BlennyTime]

Looks like ORA has red, blue and spotted ones they are breeding. Liveaquaria has some of the blue and spotted ones in stock.

Here’s a link to ORA’s program: https://www.orafarm.com/products/fish/dragonets/

 

[Adam]

Even with one that ate frozen wouldn't you need to target feed it multiple times a day?

 

[Rainblood]

Even with one that ate frozen wouldn't you need to target feed it multiple times a day?

This is a cool article from a long time ago

Melev's Mandarin Diner | Melev's Reef

www.melevsreef.com

But more recently, it seems that even if they are trained to eat frozen 1) they are difficult to feed or kept well fed and 2) they just don't live as long due to nutritional value of frozen over live copepods.

 

[Doberman13]

I have a 22 g tank with a 30g sump (holds like 20g). My refugium is 8"x6"x8". I made a hotel out of a cut up real estate sign. I have 2 clowns, tailspot blenny, Ruby red dragonet, and a Springer's damsel.
I had a good population of large amphipods(like 2-3 mm in length) in the tank and also got a pod bomb from Heisenberg aquatics a year ago. That was right before I added the dragonet. I haven't had to add any pods since.
I feed mysis or a frozen homemade blend everyday. My Ruby dragonet loves.mysis and the frozen flounder/masego blend. It took only a week or so using tweezers to get him to go after the mysis. He's fat and happy I just wish he would come to the front of the tank more

 

[Doberman13]

It's impossible to get a good photo of him unless its at night.

 

[00Dan]

I have a 22 g tank with a 30g sump (holds like 20g). My refugium is 8"x6"x8". I made a hotel out of a cut up real estate sign. I have 2 clowns, tailspot blenny, Ruby red dragonet, and a Springer's damsel.
I had a good population of large amphipods(like 2-3 mm in length) in the tank and also got a pod bomb from Heisenberg aquatics a year ago. That was right before I added the dragonet. I haven't had to add any pods since.
I feed mysis or a frozen homemade blend everyday. My Ruby dragonet loves.mysis and the frozen flounder/masego blend. It took only a week or so using tweezers to get him to go after the mysis. He's fat and happy I just wish he would come to the front of the tank more

With your post I’m certainly looking into Ruby dragonets more; it seems they are generally less finicky than mandarins and perhaps more suited to a small system.

 

[ActiveAngel]

I would be cautious about calling Rubies as ‘less finicky’, especially compared to incredibly popular Mandarins that are a staple everywhere. This massive popularity (combined with its beauty; a scientific curiosity better left for another time) has led to hoards of these fish dying in captivity in the care of unprepared individuals. And resulting in countless accounts of their difficulty.

While this is true, it would be prudent to extend this to all Dragonets, not just Mandarins. Probable explanations include:
1) Mandarins are more popular, and therefore a larger quantity are dying, and leading to proportionally more reports.
2) Rubies are new to the aquarium scene. It will take decades for them to begin to catch up to 10% of Mandarins.
3) Other Dragonets, such as Brown Scooters (and Rubies) are often appreciated more by aquarium enthusiasts than they are by absolute beginners (with no experience/preparedness). This results in disproportionately low reports for all non-Mandarin Dragonets.

Sorry if this bursts your bubble at all. So I’ll leave you with a strong positive for Rubies. They are much much smaller. This can infer lower metabolic rates and nutrient demands (they eat less than larger Dragonet species).

 

[Doberman13]

I agree, I wouldn't say less finnicky but definitely smaller in size and consumption. That's a very interesting take on mandarins and I completely see how that would be the case. For years before starting a saltwater tank I wanted a blue mandarin but once I got into it I knew it would be something I'd really have to plan for. That's when I did all the research and went for the Ruby.

In my experience I got lucky being able to get him to eat frozen so quickly. I set up a pod culture and phyto culture and was fully determined to consistently buy pods if need be. Surprisingly my tank was much better at producing pods than the culture tank I set up.

 

[00Dan]

Perhaps the course of action to take it to seed the tank well and see how the pod population fares and decide how to move forward from there.

 

[NanCrab]

I would be cautious about calling Rubies as ‘less finicky’, especially compared to incredibly popular Mandarins that are a staple everywhere. This massive popularity (combined with its beauty; a scientific curiosity better left for another time) has led to hoards of these fish dying in captivity in the care of unprepared individuals. And resulting in countless accounts of their difficulty.

While this is true, it would be prudent to extend this to all Dragonets, not just Mandarins. Probable explanations include:
1) Mandarins are more popular, and therefore a larger quantity are dying, and leading to proportionally more reports.
2) Rubies are new to the aquarium scene. It will take decades for them to begin to catch up to 10% of Mandarins.
3) Other Dragonets, such as Brown Scooters (and Rubies) are often appreciated more by aquarium enthusiasts than they are by absolute beginners (with no experience/preparedness). This results in disproportionately low reports for all non-Mandarin Dragonets.

Sorry if this bursts your bubble at all. So I’ll leave you with a strong positive for Rubies. They are much much smaller. This can infer lower metabolic rates and nutrient demands (they eat less than larger Dragonet species).

We love our mandarin. It is already adult sized. We have at leased 120# of rock in the tank with a large refugium that has substrate and ceramic cubes and macro algae in it. Ours does not eat the frozen foods as far as I can tell but is maintaining good weight.