What Fish?

[kdg]

Hello,

I came across Tristan Lougher's book, "What Fish?" at a used book store the other day. As i was reading through it i noticed that well more than half of the roughly 200 fish described in the book require the fishkeeper to add it first or add it last, depending on its particular temperament. I understand the inherent risks involved when breaking these rules, but I am curious to know how others handle this matter in actual practice.

In other words, when you build/buy a tank, do you typically enter with the mindset that this tank will be intended to display a Koran Angel (to take one example), with every other fish, rock, invert, etc., added exclusively with the needs/temperament of the Koran in mind? Or, even if you want to add a Koran, do you typically take a more holistic approach, even if you know that this approach may not meet the textbook needs of keeping a Koran?

As a relative newbie, I continuously come across several new species that appeal to me. As i plan for a new, larger tank (current 29g), I am trying to figure out whether to follow a scripted strategy built around a single fish, or whether to simply strive for a healthy, balanced tank, and just hope that my desired centerpiece fish can handle it.

Thanks for reading and for offering guidance based on your experience.

 

[scramer74]

I've been kind of in the same boat. I'm a newbie and have a small tank. I tend to want everything! I kind of narrowed it down to what I really REALLy want and then base everything else around that.

 

[redstang]

Yeah, realistically it's very difficult to hold to that rule. Like when I added a 6-line wrasse last to my 29gal BC. A year or so later my blend passed. I added another, not the exact same type either, and the 6-line ignored it. Best you can do is monitor closely and if you see aggression, pick which one to remove and sell.

 

[kdg]

Thanks, SCramer. I see (from your thread) that you are closing in on the end of the cycling process. I remember going through this many months ago...it's so hard to remain patient, but i'm glad that i did. The excitement of looking at water and rock is enjoyable for about a week, but not much more! Hang in there...and i look forward to watching your tank develop.

Fwiw, i began stocking my tank without any systematic plan. I added many of the classic beginners' fish; 2 clowns, 1 royal gramma, 1 Pajama Cardinal...Although this has led to healthy fish overall, i ran out of room just at the time when i started to learn about and become more interested in many other types of fish. I added a Melanurus Wrasse a couple of weeks ago as my "centerpiece," which i've really enjoyed, but i'm entirely out of real estate at this point.

One piece of advice on coral: Just like rock-scaping, there is an art to coral-scaping. My coral has grown very well for the most part, but the tank still looks more like a frag farm rather than a natural reef. A better scaping job with the same exact coral pieces would really make sense...but i don't want to do anything that would possibly stunt their development at this point.

 

[redstang]

KDG;1019222 wrote: Thanks, SCramer. I see (from your thread) that you are closing in on the end of the cycling process. I remember going through this many months ago...it's so hard to remain patient, but i'm glad that i did. The excitement of looking at water and rock is enjoyable for about a week, but not much more! Hang in there...and i look forward to watching your tank develop.

Fwiw, i began stocking my tank without any systematic plan. I added many of the classic beginners' fish; 2 clowns, 1 royal gramma, 1 Pajama Cardinal...Although this has led to healthy fish overall, i ran out of room just at the time when i started to learn about and become more interested in many other types of fish. I added a Melanurus Wrasse a couple of weeks ago as my "centerpiece," which i've really enjoyed, but i'm entirely out of real estate at this point.

One piece of advice on coral: Just like rock-scaping, there is an art to coral-scaping. My coral has grown very well for the most part, but the tank still looks more like a frag farm rather than a natural reef. A better scaping job with the same exact coral pieces would really make sense...but i don't want to do anything that would possibly stunt their development at this point.

It really takes time to let things grow out. I remember starting with small frags of green hammer, purple hammer, and frogspawn. Took a little while but got to the point where they were really reducing flow in my BC because of size. They were beautiful and worth the wait though. Definitely leave room to grow.

 

[kdg]

Hi RedStang,

The Sixline seems to be the ultimate "never know what you're gonna get" fish. Is the Sixline your centerpiece fish in the 29g? If there were aggression, would you remove the Sixline or the Blenny?

I thought for a while that i'd have to take my Melanurus out...but i'm happy to report that it's behaving well. I'm not exactly sure how i would catch it in the event that i actually did have to remove it!

 

[kdg]

Just missed your last post, RedStang. Seems like a great point. It's wrong to think that "patience" ends when cycling ends. If i can picture my tank a year from now, the corals--if they continue to grow--will begin to form into more of a coherent whole. Also, i never considered the fact that my waving Hammer is not just enjoying the flow, but actually reducing the flow for the other coral...

 

[redstang]

KDG;1019229 wrote: Hi RedStang,

The Sixline seems to be the ultimate "never know what you're gonna get" fish. Is the Sixline your centerpiece fish in the 29g? If there were aggression, would you remove the Sixline or the Blenny?

I thought for a while that i'd have to take my Melanurus out...but i'm happy to report that it's behaving well. I'm not exactly sure how i would catch it in the event that i actually did have to remove it!

Lost the 6-line in an alk crash when I had a bad batch of salt. But he was a model citizen the entire time I had him which was about 2.5 years. I'd probably remove the 6-line. I was able to see where he slept at night and, as long as I could surprise hime, think he'd have been easier to catch than the blenny. When I moved the blenny over to the 60 cube he was the most difficult to catch. Swam into his bolt hole and wouldn't come out. Took repeatedly taking the rock and holding it over the water for him to jump out.

 

[scramer74]

Yes,,,,! So over looking at water, but it is definitely giving me practice in patience. I'm finding I really know what I don't like, but that's visually, I need to prob. Think more along the lines of what gets along with what. I have such a tiny tank, I'll honestly be happy with a clown, erchin, really want a goby watchmen and pistol shrimp pair, then the rest softies, zoas (the easy stuff)

 

[crew]

Most of us usually design a tank with a specific fish or type of fish in mind. For me, I want to be able to house tangs. That doesn't mean that I built my tank around a tang, but there were certain parameters that I had to have (size of tank, flow, etc) that would be good for a tang vs. gobies... but that doesn't mean that I have to go out of my way to do everything a tang needs. When adding fish to a tank, you will see "add this fish last" quite a bit, but what you really need to focus on is the other fish in your tank. For example - a tang is usually suggested as the last addition to a tank, but so are certain types of wrasse, so how do you get both? Well, in my experience, the bigger fish will win out, so you would add the wrasse before the tang.

There are a couple of other "tricks" that will help ease aggression too. Feeding the tank before adding anything, turning the lights off and leaving them that way for a day or so once you add the new fish. Rearranging a few pieces of rock to confuse the fish.

Whenever you see specific rules to fish, it's important to note that it usually isn't so cut and dry. Most fish are pretty tolerant if you can outsmart them.

As for figuring out what you like and don't like - the only way to really do that is to try different things out.

 

[kdg]

Thanks for sharing your experience, Crew. It's great to get both the "textbook" version of things as well as the lived-experience version.

 

[jennm]

The problem with fishes, is they don't read the textbooks.

The behavioral observations can vary from one individual to another, but a specie may be generally known for a particular personality - like being territorial, or not tolerating conspecifics. Observing a specimen in a mixed tank for a time before buying it, can help.

Rearranging your rock work when adding something new if you already have a bully can help - it 'resets' perceived territories that established fish may have claimed.

You mentioned wanting a Koran angel - they get HUGE and they can get aggressive - you'll need a pretty large tank to keep one happy and healthy. Having said that, I had one about 25 years ago and it had the best personality in the tank, and it was a model citizen. I did not try to keep any other angels with it, however.

It can be tricky to decide what order to go in, what usually ends up happening is, you acquire fish on your 'list' when you happen to find one available, as not all species are always available. Some are even 'seasonal' - some times during the year they are abundantly available, and very scarce at others. That usually plays a big part, as nobody wants to wait a year til the 'next' one on the list turns up for sale.

Jenn

 

[kdg]

Thanks, JennM.

Speaking of observing a specimen's behavior in advance...I went to a lfs today to eyeball a Koran Angel. They didn't have an adult Koran, but they did have an adult Emperor. The Emperor was enormous. I understand that the Koran would reach the same size...and my dreams of owning the Koran were dashed in an instant! I just can't imagine owning a tank large enough to give it the space it needs.

 

[jennm]

I've seen adult large angels in a 300g and it still looks 'small' for them. Granted it takes a long while for them to get to that size from juveniles.

And it may be politically incorrect to say so... but 'the hobby' (read that however you wish) usually kills them before they get to that size.

Still, having said that, when purchasing a fish that has the potential to outgrow its quarters, one does need an exit plan.

I remember a talk Steven Pro gave to our club many years ago, and he said, "You plan to buy a 125 next year, but you're going to be laid off in 8 months." He makes an excellent point. Even the best laid plans can fall through. So a proper 'exit plan' has to have several different contingencies - if not one's own tank upgrade, know of at least a couple of other options to re-home something if you are fortunate enough to keep it long enough to outgrow what you can provide.

If one cannot adequately do that, then it's probably best to stick with species that don't get so big. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of other options to choose from.

You get points for thinking ahead Many people don't.

Jenn