YOU do know that this can kill our Saltwater Hobby, right?

ralph atl

ralph atl

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NMFS SEEKING PUBLIC COMMENTS ON ISSUING PROTECTIVE REGULATIONS FOR 20 CORALS SPECIES
Comments due March 16, 2015 - See more at: http://www.pijac.org/pet-alerts/nmfs-seeking-public-comments-issuing-protective-regulations-20-corals-species#sthash.TpB4xwIL.dpuf">http://www.pijac.org/pet-alerts/nmfs-seeking-public-comments-issuing-protective-regulations-20-corals-species#sthash.TpB4xwIL.dpuf</a>

[B]Saltwater aquarium hobbyists, enthusiasts, store owners, or any stakeholder in the aquarium industry, NMFS is seeking public comments no later than March 16th.[/B]

here's where to comment:
[IMG]http://www.regulations.gov/#!submitComment;D=NOAA_FRDOC_0001-3274">http://www.regulations.gov/#!submitComment;D=NOAA_FRDOC_0001-3274</a>

[B]Very important that you comment NOW![/B]
 
12 hours later, 106 post views, and no comments. :(

Nobody gives a darn until after it happens, and supply goes away.

I've seen 'potential legislation' come and go dozens of times over the years, usually without it passing, but one of these days, legislation will get through and the hobby will be changed forever.

Jenn
 
JennM;1010185 wrote: 12 hours later, 106 post views, and no comments. :(

Nobody gives a darn until after it happens, and supply goes away.

I've seen 'potential legislation' come and go dozens of times over the years, usually without it passing, but one of these days, legislation will get through and the hobby will be changed forever.

Jenn
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Not to sound defeatist but do you think hobbyist opinion on this would make any difference? Can't see it carrying too much weight if someone in power, not in the hobby, has a strong agenda.

"Gee, the guy with 200 acropora thinks he's doing a good thing by selling frags to his buddies. Of course he does".

I don't know... It's a bit scary but what's our angle? I could see the aquaculture angle but the existence of it encourages wild cultivation at some point in the supply chain.
 
I haven't read the latest stuff yet but usually these proposals even include aquacultured stuff. Most of these things are written by bureaucrats who don't have a clue.

Fortunately, plenty of the more learned types in our hobby and industry do speak out. I haven't checked yet to see what PIJAC is doing about it but hopefully they are on it too.

Jenn
 
tonymission;1010228 wrote: Not to sound defeatist but do you think hobbyist opinion on this would make any difference? Can't see it carrying too much weight if someone in power, not in the hobby, has a strong agenda.

"Gee, the guy with 200 acropora thinks he's doing a good thing by selling frags to his buddies. Of course he does".

I don't know... It's a bit scary but what's our angle? I could see the aquaculture angle but the existence of it encourages wild cultivation at some point in the supply chain.
Click to expand...

Exactly. hobbyists' comments aren't really going to help unless there's a template they can use so we have a coordinated and focused effort. We've been trying to get something like this organized, but pijac isn't exactly quick to move or act and no other group exists.

We fave a huge problem of proof. We don't have any. We don't have the science to refute their claims and unfortunately, they don't need any to support their claims. The burden is on us to either prove them wrong or push for alternatives or exceptions (aquaculture and mariculture).
 
JennM;1010239 wrote: I haven't read the latest stuff yet but usually these proposals even include aquacultured stuff. Most of these things are written by bureaucrats who don't have a clue.

Fortunately, plenty of the more learned types in our hobby and industry do speak out. I haven't checked yet to see what PIJAC is doing about it but hopefully they are on it too.

Jenn
Click to expand...

With regards to aquaculture and earlier proposals. What was the suggestion or mandate regarding currently owned captive animals ?
 
DawgFace;1010258 wrote: With regards to aquaculture and earlier proposals. What was the suggestion or mandate regarding currently owned captive animals ?
Click to expand...

There haven't been any exceptions, so they'd be deemed illegal. Unless, of course, they grandfather in currently owned stock. However, trading and selling part or whole would be illegal, so...
 
Again I haven't had time to read the current stuff, but if it's typical of the usual junk, there is no grandfathering and no distinction between captive propagated, and wild-harvested stuff.

Even if it's OK for people to keep what they already have, selling/trading/giving away becomes illegal.

The people with the most to lose are store owners, wholesalers, collectors, breeder/propagators... and anyone who earns their living from the industry, including manufacturers of the products you use. PIJAC represents them and usually is very outspoken. Occasionally, hobbyists and hobbyist groups do organize - as Raj suggested, a form letter or template is very useful because it can convey a specific message, and in numbers, it can make a difference.

Jenn
 
DawgFace;1010258 wrote: With regards to aquaculture and earlier proposals. What was the suggestion or mandate regarding currently owned captive animals ?
Click to expand...
If NMFS applies all of the prohibitions contained in Section 9(a)(1) of the ESA to the 20 listed coral species, a range of activities would become prohibited under federal law unless a party obtains further authorization from NMFS. These prohibited activities would include importing or exporting the species; possessing, transporting or selling the listed species; or handling, capturing, or holding the species in captivity.
 
Tbub1221;1010334 wrote: If NMFS applies all of the prohibitions contained in Section 9(a)(1) of the ESA to the 20 listed coral species, a range of activities would become prohibited under federal law unless a party obtains further authorization from NMFS. These prohibited activities would include importing or exporting the species; possessing, transporting or selling the listed species; or handling, capturing, or holding the species in captivity.
Click to expand...

There's the rub. Then what happens to all the stuff already in captivity?

It will just drive the market underground, IMO. Importation will become near impossible (but somebody will try) but the stuff that's already here - it's going to continue to grow and multiply - so what happens? People are going to find a way to traffic it.

These things are always so poorly thought out....

Sounds almost as bad as the bill that would have made all but goldfish, illegal...
 
I have submitted a comment and its not showing. I seen one part that said 176 comments but I couldn't find how to open. I have shared the link through some fb groups so hopefully we can get a few coherent thoughts submitted for our side.

Pulled from regulations.gov:

TIPS FOR SUBMITTING EFFECTIVE COMMENTS*
Overview
A comment can express simple support or dissent for a regulatory action. However, a constructive,
information-rich comment that clearly communicates and supports its claims is more likely to have an
impact on regulatory decision making.
These tips are meant to help the public submit comments that have an impact and help agency policy
makers improve federal regulations.
Summary
&#61692; Read and understand the regulatory document you are commenting on
&#61692; Feel free to reach out to the agency with questions
&#61692; Be concise but support your claims
&#61692; Base your justification on sound reasoning, scientific evidence, and/or how you will be
impacted
&#61692; Address trade-offs and opposing views in your comment
&#61692; There is no minimum or maximum length for an effective comment
&#61692; The comment process is not a vote – <span style="color: Red">one well supported comment is often more influential
than a thousand form letters</span>
 
JennM;1010355 wrote: There's the rub. Then what happens to all the stuff already in captivity?

It will just drive the market underground, IMO. Importation will become near impossible (but somebody will try) but the stuff that's already here - it's going to continue to grow and multiply - so what happens? People are going to find a way to traffic it.

These things are always so poorly thought out....

Sounds almost as bad as the bill that would have made all but goldfish, illegal...
Click to expand...


Sounds like my collection just quadrupled in price with that scenario. But also a felony to sell.
College all over again...
 
tonymission;1010371 wrote: Sounds like my collection just quadrupled in price with that scenario. But also a felony to sell.
College all over again...
Click to expand...

Wth lol.
 
Clay4AU;1010359 wrote: <span style="color: Red">one well supported comment is often more influential
than a thousand form letters</span>
Click to expand...

Completely agree with everything you've said however considering how accurately placed this in red is. I feel the need for a form letter in situations like this is under appreciated. From personal lobbying experience one idiotic self serving response can undermine and diminish a thousand well drafted personal comments.
 
tonymission;1010374 wrote: It was a joke....

I dropped out of college.
Click to expand...

LOL took me a second but I got it.... "Slow" is a ramifications of my college experience for sure.
 
DawgFace;1010397 wrote: Completely agree with everything you've said however considering how accurately placed this in red is. I feel the need for a form letter in situations like this is under appreciated. From personal lobbying experience one idiotic self serving response can undermine and diminish a thousand well drafted personal comments.
Click to expand...

I was just highlighting what i pulled from the site and I totally understand your point, where the letters would act like a petition. I'll sign/send any that were well written.
 
Clay4AU;1010399 wrote: I was just highlighting what i pulled from the site and I totally understand your point, where the letters would act like a petition. I'll sign/send any that were well written.
Click to expand...

Yea I know. I was just pointing out to hopefully stop the person that planned to say something like, "taking away our saltwater hobby will just cause the bad actors to focus the bad acting on other animals."

Believe it or not, heard that on another forum.
 
DawgFace;1010398 wrote: LOL took me a second but I got it.... "Slow" is a ramifications of my college experience for sure.
Click to expand...

Not sure what's worse, me for catching it that fast or you taking that long ^.^
 
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