Zoa and Mushrooms Not Happy Mystery

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Scott23

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I have a 20G tank that is about 3 months old with mainly LPS and 3 fish. No skimming...only filter floss changed weekly. LPS are doing well, but some red mushrooms, zoa frag and come firework polyps are only partially opening up. It has been driving me crazy.

I was doing heavy water changes (approx 30% per week) which I am backing off to be about 20% every two weeks. I also started testing alkalinity which I assume that soft corals, in general, are not very sensitive to. My alkalinity was down below 7, but I have raised gradually to over 8.

I have been told that having problems with zoas could be caused by lack of nitrates or phosphates. I purchased a Hanna checker for phosphates. It was 0.13 and my nitrates were undetectable. I have been trying to raise nitrates, first by more fish and coral feeding, also adding reef energy AB+. Now I am dosing nitrate (NeoNitro) to try and get my nitrates to 3ppm. I have dosed twice per my volume to reach this target. This morning, I got my first detectable nitrate reading at around 1-2ppm using Salifert. Don't know where the nitrates have been going up to this point. I have some brown diatoms on sand, but nothing else that I see that would be consuming the nitrates besides corals.

I have been bad scientist in changing too many variables at once. My zoas, mushrooms, and polyps were completely closed for a few days at one point. All on the same day, increased the DKH, fed more, added Reef Energy AB+, and added an activated carbon bag to the sump. The next morning there was a notable improvement. I don't know what helped. I was feeling like it might have been the carbon, but I can't be sure.

The mushrooms are significantly better, but not fully open. The polyps seem to be doing somewhat better as well. The zoas still open up only slightly and for only a limited period of time during the day. One more thing...lighting...The zoas are in an area getting about 50 to 75 PAR.

Any advice is appreciated. I have read that zoas and polyps are very easy. I don't know why I am having so much difficulty with them.

Thanks
 

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Thanks for the reply. You're right. Cycle finished in December. I have been getting all my salt water from LFS. I was actually getting from 3 different stores, which I now realize was a mistake. I will now only get from one LFS to avoid that variability. I am just puzzled why all LPS seem fine, but I am having trouble with the polyps and zoas are barely opening at all. Here is a picture showing the rest of the tank.
 

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I found that zoas are sensitive to high and/or big changes in salinity. What are you using to measure your salinity, and how often do you calibrate that against a reference?

I've also had them not grow for no apparent reason at all, and have had some varieties do nothing while others explode, so milage may vary...

And yes... you are doing a lot very fast. You might want to slow down a bit on the changes and give things a chance to stabilize.
 
Thanks. I have been measuring PH, DKH, Calcium and Nitrate frequently, but I haven't been paying close attention to salinity. I assumed that salinity would stay constant (keeping constant total volume with RO water top off) except when doing a water change, and I am slowing down on water changes. I have a cheapo salinity hydrometer (coralife deep six). It show my salinity as 1.024. Have you ever had zoas not open or barely open for over a week?
 
I would ditch the hydrometer and get a refractometer. I use a vee gee stx-3. Salinity being high or low can cause all kinds of trouble. For me most zoas like nitrates at 5-10 and phosphates between .05 - .1 . Lighting can also be a factor. I like to try new frags in different amounts of light before mounting them to rock. Honestly though sometimes zoas do what ever they want for no obvious reason. I would get a good refractometer and calibration fluid to check it with. Make sure your salinity is right then focus on getting your nitrates up to 5-10. You phosphates being at .130 most likely isn't the problem but it wouldn't hurt to get it under .1
 
Thanks! I will try to get my phosphates down and keep an eye on my salinity. Regarding salinity...if I am not dosing much and always topping off with RO water, won't my salinity stay constant?
 
Scott23 said:
Thanks! I will try to get my phosphates down and keep an eye on my salinity. Regarding salinity...if I am not dosing much and always topping off with RO water, won't my salinity stay constant?
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Yes it should but it is always good to double check every now and then
 
At one time a while back I had two hydrometers from the same company. They looked exactly the same and said something like "Certified Accuracy" on them or some marketing BS like that. If my water was really 1.025, one of them would read 1.022 and the other would read 1.027. Since they looked the same, I never knew which one I had picked up, so I thought I was having huge salinity swings. I would constantly be trying to adjust my salinity to be "correct", but then I'd pick up the other one and think I had overcorrected. You can guess what I was doing to the tank. Long story short... Hydrometers are crap. All of them. Throw yours away and get a refractometer and some calibration solution and calibrate often.
 
I thought I had a possible answer...My last measurement of Phosphate around a week ago was 0.13ppm. I have only fed the tank more heavily since then and assumed I would see even higher phosphate. I just measured my phosphate and it is now down to 0.02ppm without any water changes or any specific phosphate removal treatment. While I have been feeding heavier, I have also been dosing Amino acids (carbon dosing?) and nitrate. I am assuming that the nitrate and phosphate have been consumed by some bacteria population?
 
I think your tank is still settling in and would make gradual moves toward your desired numbers for Alk, Salinity, Nitrate and Phosphate. My zoas were stuck with not much growth for quite a long time before they took off. I would say getting that nitrate to around 10 or more is a good target for zoas. There is a ton of stuff going on in a tank that is still establishing. The diatoms were a big problem for me as I was at zero at phosphate and nitrate for a long while. When I brought those numbers us and was consistent the zoas started growing and multiplying. My experience is the same as others, some palys and zoas grow at radically different speeds. My AOIs are sloooooww and the purple monsters and bam bams are super fast growers. Good luck and keep up the good work.
 
Thanks! I know that patience and consistency are the key. Easier said then done! :) When I was last into the hobby almost 20 years ago, there was much less water testing. I didn't even use RO water (deionization and carbon filters only) ! Now everything is so much more precise, it is easy to go overboard with testing and trying to control parameters. The zoa problem was just a surprise, since I can't get them to fully open, let alone grow. Everybody at ARC has been super helpful with advice.
 
Let it stabilize. I dose half dialy the amount of AB+..usually about an hour before lights out. With mainly softies though a day dose may be better as they close at night. York1 pretty much hit it on the head with nitrate/phos. Wouldn't even worry if nitrate was pushing 15-20...would look at 5ppm as a minimal..10ish about perfect for me. Zoas can stay close for a week no problem, just make sure it's not too much light. Start low and work up. I.e. zoas extending to light need more light most likely..closed need less. It's hard to maintain stable salinity without an ATO of some sort whether it's mechanical or gravity.
 
For me, the par sounds low. My zoas are all in 110 par and up.

Feed more. My corals all like Nitrates around 10, and Phosphates between .06-.12. I've even has Nitrates around 25 for long periods of time and all was good.
 
Thanks. I have 20L tank with a HD 52 over it. I rented a PAR meter from a LFS. With some LPS at the very top I didn't want to exceed 150-200 PAR. This ended up giving me 50-75 at the bottom corners. Even if my PAR may be a little low, I would expect that they would stretch out and open up to try and get more light. I can try moving them to a different spot.
 
Scott23 said:
I thought I had a possible answer...My last measurement of Phosphate around a week ago was 0.13ppm. I have only fed the tank more heavily since then and assumed I would see even higher phosphate. I just measured my phosphate and it is now down to 0.02ppm without any water changes or any specific phosphate removal treatment. While I have been feeding heavier, I have also been dosing Amino acids (carbon dosing?) and nitrate. I am assuming that the nitrate and phosphate have been consumed by some bacteria population?
Click to expand...
I hit .13 often, no biggie. Up that par.
 
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