Zoa Eating Nudibranchs

[zoajohn]

Well found one munching on one of my zoa colonies this morning. So I’d assume there’s others although this is the only one I’ve ever seen and haven’t really had any issues with my zoas thus far. Plus I dip every new coral I add.

I pulled the colony and did a 4.5 minute Bayer dip, but to my surprise it didn’t kill the lone nudi. Had to get to work so I just plucked it off and tossed it into a cup of freshwater. What’s the best way to rid my tank of these short of pulling out each colony? Rent-a-wrasse?


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[bhodges82]

Well found one munching on one of my zoa colonies this morning. So I’d assume there’s others although this is the only one I’ve ever seen and haven’t really had any issues with my zoas thus far. Plus I dip every new coral I add.

I pulled the colony and did a 4.5 minute Bayer dip, but to my surprise it didn’t kill the lone nudi. Had to get to work so I just plucked it off and tossed it into a cup of freshwater. What’s the best way to rid my tank of these short of pulling out each colony? Rent-a-wrasse?


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In my experience, dips don't kill nudis unfortunately. Good inspection is always a good idea, quarantine is a better idea.

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[FutureInterest]

A lot of nudis aren't bothered by bayer. It may stun them but it doesn't kill even at milky white concentrations. They are strong...

Salifert flatworm exit at triple the concentration will kill them off. It won't kill the eggs though so you need to dose again after a week. This works for monti eating nudis as well.

 

[zoajohn]

A lot of nudis aren't bothered by bayer. It may stun them but it doesn't kill even at milky white concentrations. They are strong...

Salifert flatworm exit at triple the concentration will kill them off. It won't kill the eggs though so you need to dose again after a week. This works for monti eating nudis as well.

Will flatworm exit have a negative impact on anything else in my tank?


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[bhodges82]

It can if you don't preform the required water change, it can kill inverts and cause an ammonia spike.

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[FutureInterest]

FWE at that concentration will potentially kill bristleworms, brittle starfish, and urchins. They will likely make it but you can always remove from the tank during treatment. Corals and fish are not effected. The primary active ingredient is levanisole which is a pig dewormer. If you want to buy in bulk you can find that at most feed stores... much cheaper than FWE.

 

[zoajohn]

FWE at that concentration will potentially kill bristleworms, brittle starfish, and urchins. They will likely make it but you can always remove from the tank during treatment. Corals and fish are not effected. The primary active ingredient is levanisole which is a pig dewormer. If you want to buy in bulk you can find that at most feed stores... much cheaper than FWE.

Would a small wrasse be able to eradicate them? I could probably get a smaller six line temporarily. If not I would go the FWE route


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[FutureInterest]

6line would eat them but they are well adapted to evading them since they take on the color of the zoas they eat.

 

[FutureInterest]

A good way to tell if they're in a colony is to piss off the colony such that they all close. The zoas that don't close are the nudis. I had them in my coral qt system and fwe took care of it without any issues.

The only way that fwe can cause harm from what I've seen is when you have wayy too many of the red flatworms. Those things release a lot of toxins when they die which can kill your fish.

 

[zoajohn]

A good way to tell if they're in a colony is to piss off the colony such that they all close. The zoas that don't close are the nudis. I had them in my coral qt system and fwe took care of it without any issues.

The only way that fwe can cause harm from what I've seen is when you have wayy too many of the red flatworms. Those things release a lot of toxins when they die which can kill your fish.

Yeah I did notice the nudi was red and was on a fire and ice colony. I don’t think I have any flatworms


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[FutureInterest]

Then you should be fine to dose. A 6line and other similar wrasses can resolve the issue for you naturally but they can also be hit/miss. The natural solution is typically better though so I think giving that a whirl first is fine. I'm the impatient sort when it comes to nasty lil buggers so I always have FWE on hand. It's part of my coral dip process now to always do a FWE dip before the coral even goes into QT now.

 

[jessezm]

Not to hijack the this thread but Jin, can you elaborate on the Monti Eating Nudi comment you made? Have you successfully treated for MENs using a triple dose of FE, repeated back to back after 7 days? Or can you point me to a thread or some more info? I am currently QT'ing all my montis due to small but clear infestation, and I'd like to do more than just let the tank lie fallow of montis for 6 months or however long it takes to be sure... If I could confidently kill them off in the main system I would do it in a second! I just hadn't seen anything in my research about treating effectively with FE. Also, some have suggested that the eggs can stay dormant for long periods of time, thus evading treatment. Not sure if I believe it, though... Thanks!

 

[FutureInterest]

Yes, it works. You can test this yourself... just get some FWE and start adding drops into a container with a nudi in it. I'd recommend a gallon of water. The FWE will stun the nudi and eventually it will die. You'll know when its dead because it will release from whatever its holding onto. Once you know how many drops it takes for a gallon do the math and get your tank treated. The eggs hatch fast... like from 36-96 hours. So after you dose once... dose again in 6 days. Also keep in mind that it doesn't kill instantly... it takes a lil time... and experimentation but I assure you it does work.

I don't believe that whole nudi eggs stay dormant baloney... that's just because some got through whatever treatment they did. These guys like to wander at night... and unless you really treat your system like this you'll battle them forever imo or be forced to go fallow.

If you need more help on it feel free to reach out bud.

 

[jessezm]

Awesome I may go ahead and try this. I still have to do a second round of Prazi for flukes tonight, but after I'm through with that I'll try the FWE. It's going to take a good amount to treat my 300g system at 3x dose, twice in a row... Maybe I should source some pig de-wormer instead?

 

[FutureInterest]

Yep. Levamisole seems to be the active ingredient. They don't release that information... as it is proprietary... but they did hint at it when someone was hospitalized after using FWE and cleaning their tank. Turns out he was ill from the flatworm toxins that were released into the water... I have not tried levamisole but others have had success with it from my research. I was warned though that some sources for the drug can cause issues... I was busy at the time and didn't delve further into the "issues". I'm just passing that along.

 

[jessezm]

Thanks! Yeah just trying to get comfortable with it before spending $100 on medicine and nuking the tank LOL. One source says to use 50ppm for 10 hours, which I think is more like a 10x dose, and I read others having some SPS bleaching at that concentration and losing other inverts. Of course, I do not have large planaria that would release a ton of toxins in my system, nor are there many nudis. I can't even locate any at this time, as I've pulled out all of my montis. I do have a few tiny flatworms that appear on the glass from time to time, and then I also have a gazillion vermetid stails. I'm actually curious if it would have an impact on those tiny devils, as a mass die off of those would certainly leave a mark...

Do you happen to know, at the 3x FWE dose, how long to run the dose before turning on the activated carbon?

 

[FutureInterest]

Hmmm... I might try pulling some vermetids and treating just to see...

Not sure on the carbon. When I did this I ran the carbon after an hour of treatment.

 

[jessezm]

good idea. I mean I would love to kill the little buggers, but not all at the same time lol