Zoas unhappy

NanCrab

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My zoas are unhappy and I can’t figure out why. Colonies that were wide open and growing are either not opening or only partially opening. I have been messing with my lighting but nothing else has changed or their than I did use a half dose of waste away several days ago and I dosed 25ml each of ATI 2 part. Also added 2 tangs about a week ago. Water parameters are otherwise stable fish are fine. Hammer hasn’t been extending as much as normal either but it kept getting knocked down by snails so had to reglue.
Help please.
 
All of the ICP tests are the same for the most part but I perfer the ATI one just due to the fact that you also send out your RODI water and they test that as well.
 
what were your parameters before dosingf and what are they now?

Any of the major things we test / dose for changing significantly can annoy zoas / hammers IME.

What are your nitrates?
 
what were your parameters before dosingf and what are they now?

Any of the major things we test / dose for changing significantly can annoy zoas / hammers IME.

What are your nitrates?
I checked parameters on Sunday
pH yesterday 8.2 (Hanna)
Nitrates 5ppm (RedSea)
dKH 8.2 (Hanna)
Phosphates 0.3 (up since adding tangs, waiting for Macroalgae to arrive)
Temp 77.2.....used to be stable at 98.6 until I started adding Inkbird and Finnex controllers, now it is fluctuating some while I try to tighten things up
Am/Nitrites 0/0
Sp. Gr. 1.025 and that gets checked daily and very stable
Calcium and Magnesium were slightly elevated last week when I checked them 480 and 1600 respectively (RedSea)- not a fan of this test kit at all
ORP I have no idea. As for send in test kits, how reliable are they if you have to wait for the results? Can’t things change by the time you get them? I do have one of those kits that someone gifted me at the last ARC meeting.
 
Surprised no one has mentioned this yet - but sometimes zoas just get ticked off and close up. Mine do it often, sometimes will just close up for half the day. I'm finally starting to see zoa babies more often.

On another note, my GSP closed up for three days straight - I started freaking out about them and was about to post here and then they just sprung back to life even larger than before. It's growing like crazy.
 
Your phosphate is a bit high. You might want to add a gfo reactor to help get that number down.
 
Your phosphate is a bit high. You might want to add a gfo reactor to help get that number down.

I would not do this just yet. The system is still pretty new and while the PO4 is on the high side, I'd be hesitant to take any drastic steps to bring it down at this point. What test kit are you using?

Now that I think about it, perhaps a little GFO wouldn't hurt. I just wouldn't want to go overboard while the system seeks it's own balance. If you've got a free kit, I'd use it. Things can change some but it's still a good idea to get a decent base to make sure things are in line. I do it for my tanks a few times a year just to make sure I don't get too high on any of the trace elements that I don't test for. As for temp fluctuations, I use the same controllers and haven't noticed any real downsides.
 
Send in kits are rock solid especially Triton but I would hold off dosing anything on such a new tank. Best to sit back the next couple of months and just watch it settle in. Take the time to watch what fluctuates and to what degree. DO water changes religiously and enjoy watching stuff.

Don't chase numbers as it will lead to many problems (tank and your health).
 
I would not do this just yet. The system is still pretty new and while the PO4 is on the high side, I'd be hesitant to take any drastic steps to bring it down at this point. What test kit are you using?

Now that I think about it, perhaps a little GFO wouldn't hurt. I just wouldn't want to go overboard while the system seeks it's own balance. If you've got a free kit, I'd use it. Things can change some but it's still a good idea to get a decent base to make sure things are in line. I do it for my tanks a few times a year just to make sure I don't get too high on any of the trace elements that I don't test for. As for temp fluctuations, I use the same controllers and haven't noticed any real downsides.

Was just about to say the same thing - I'd consider GFO the nuclear option at this point. The tank is indeed very new and when my phosphates were that similar level, the softies weren't noticeably affected (LPS on the other hand...)

Mine is a different case as I believe nitrate dosing got me back in balance (undetectable still). It took about a month of smaller feedings and more frequent chaeto removals to get my phosphates back under 0.05ppm and everything is back to happy again with the turf/hair mystery algae pushing back.
 
I did
I'm really curious as to the dosing, what did you end up doing about water changes? With @160 gallons and only a minute amount of coral, even if changing only 5% every few weeks I'd be amazed if any elements were in need of supplementation so soon.
a water change a couple of weeks ago. Haven’t set u the AWC yet just the ATO
 
Any lighting change can cause them to be unhappy. Prolly what happened here. Give them time I'm sure they'll be fine, they are super hardy.
 
+1 on the lighting as that has happened to me.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 
So some things are starting to reopen some polyps but not the way they were. I’m not chasing numbers just checking them lol.
This morning:
temp 98.6
pH 8.22 (Hanna)
salinity 1.026
Nitrates 0, both API and RedSea
Phosphate 0.03 (Hanna)
dKH 8.3 (Hanna)
 
So some things are starting to reopen some polyps but not the way they were. I’m not chasing numbers just checking them lol.
This morning:
temp 98.6
pH 8.22 (Hanna)
salinity 1.026
Nitrates 0, both API and RedSea
Phosphate 0.03 (Hanna)
dKH 8.3 (Hanna)
98.6 Temp?
 
Can’t speak for Zoas, but I’ll share my recent experience since you mentioned the hammer and I feel like it may be relevant overall. Summary at end b/c I feel it’ll be somewhat long but wanted to be thorough to paint a better picture.

Basically had a neglected tank after a velvet/ich wipeout. Just kept my snails and shrimp alive for 8 months? lol.

Decided to get back in it early Feb. Amongst fish, got 3 hammer coral frags. All opened as much as I saw at LFS and seemed healthy. No nutrient testing yet but I imagine it would be high-ish (lots of algae from the neglect) and ghost fed before to keep bacteria and critters alive.

Then I went on a cleaning rampage. I vacuumed all the sand (nasty) repeatedly, 5%-10% water change everyday while cleaning sand/rocks for like 2 weeks, scrubbed all the algae off.... refug and skimmer running. Tank looked pristine. Then Cyano came, then with it some brown stuff that may or may not have been Dinos (thought it was detritus stuck on bacteria bloom initially from the sand cleaning). And while 2 hammers were still ok, one (the bigger with 4 heads) closed up to where you can see the skeleton “teeth” throughout the day.

side note: Also had 3 rbta that initially were open “fully” but seemed to close to 3/4-ish? Also a red planet acro and random acro frag rtn few days apart. 3 other frags ok.

Did some searching on forums and it seems now a common problem is too little nutrients (no3 + po4), both for coral health and/or Dino issues (and maybe cyano).

So past couple weeks, reversed course. Fed fish more, added amino acids daily (acropower) for nitrates, added reef roids daily for po4. Note: started the doses small-ish b/c no test kit for nitrate/phos yet..). Stopped the water changes (except replacing some water for siphoning cyano/brown stuff with feeder).

Within a week, the 4-head hammer fully opened (maybe more than before), the other 2 hammers seemed to be open more, the rbtas opened up even more than when I first got them, no sps deaths. Cyano and brown stuff/dino has significantly reduced (cyano still working on but again, much better).

Got the test kits last week and initially showed 2.5-5 no3 (Salifert) and .21 po4 (Hanna). I wanted to sustain that or maybe raise no3 a bit/lower po4 a bit so continued amino acid dose, cut off reef roids. Fed fish about the same. Testing everyday, my no3 has peaked around 10-25, po4 kept rising (guessing old stuff still breaking down?) to .31, but yesterday test .27 so maybe trending down (even considering .04 accuracy error, at least not going up).

Hammers still happy and more full, rbta happy and more full, sps frags seem happy (polyps out, colors good and one milli that initially lost some color coming back?).

SUMMARY

tl;dr - bought hammer corals, placed in what I assume a good amount of no3/po4 water and they seemed well. Went on cleaning/water change rampage which I assume lowered my nitrates/phosphates very low, very fast (based on what my no3/po4 tested for even after heavy fish feeding/amino acid/reef roids). One hammer in particular closed up a lot. Got cyano and some brown algae or dinos.

Raised no3 to 2.5-5 (Salifert) and po4 to .21 (Hanna), hammer open back up (more than before). Other corals and rbta happier. Cyano and brown stuff/Dino reduced significantly. Now at 10-25 no3 and .27ish po4 and still healthy. The specific numbers aren’t important, just more for reference.

Lowering nitrates and/or phosphates too fast, or almost stripping them to undetectable, in my experience (although limited and recent, and somewhat based on assumptions since didn’t test early) and based on forum reading (which again, can be all over the place so gotta parse it and make own choices with eye test on your own tank I think lol) can lead to poorer coral health and/or other issues. I mention this because although you said Sunday your no3 was 5 ppm and po4 .3, you mentioned now it is 0 no3, .03 po4, which seems like a big swing (esp po4 side?) and undetectable nitrates might be issue? (Dont know if the zoa/hammer issue happened before or after Sunday).
 
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