55 Cichlid to 120 Saltwater Conversion

[saltwaterwannabe]

I am picking up a used 120 gallon 48x24x24 RR tank, stand, canopy, and RODI this weekend that I plan to use to start my FIRST saltwater setup. I currently have a 55 gallon cichlid tank that I plan to convert to a sump for the 120. Below is what I have, what I am getting, and what I think I need. Advice is appreciated. I understand the setup can be pricey, but I have to start on a shoestring budget and upgrade as time goes on. I have a seperate post to sell or trade my pool table for some equipment that may help kickstart the build to saltwater sooner. Any advice here would be helpful.

<u>What I have</u>
55 gal cichlid tank</em> that I am converting to a sump
Rena Filstar xp2 </em>- will likely be used to cycle and later sold or used for QT
Rena Whisper Air Pump</em> - Not sure if this will need to be upgraded, but it will likely move to QT
Expired freshwater testing supplies</em>
Ph Meter</em> - dip in style
Various ornaments</em>, I will post in sales page later
42 Gallon Brute</em> to use for RODI water
5 Gal food grade buckets</em> (two) with screw on lids
Python</em>

<u>What I am picking up this weekend</u>
120 gallon tank</em> - 48x24x24
Stand and Canopy</em> for tank
Lights </em>- not sure what lights these are yet
RODI</em>

The total system will be about 175 gallons (120+55-overflow protection) I am trying to size everything for the full 175 since I am plumbing the final overflow drain to the main house line directly below the tank and am guessing I can forgo the protection this way. (A little advice here would be helpful)

<u>What I need (I think)</u>
ROCK</em> - I have not yet started cycling, so dead rock is fine from what I have been told. Total rock I am told should be around 175 to 350 pounds. I really do not have a good guage on this yet.
SKIMMER</em>
Heater</em>
800 to 1000 gpm pump</em> - I have not sized this yet since I have not seen the overflow and return piping to calculate the pump size

<u>What I think is optional at start</u>
Aquarium control system</em> with timers and dosing equipment. I wuold like to have testing equipment integrated as well
Inline UV </em>for stage 1 sterilization at around 700 gpm

 

[redstang]

First off, welcome to the ARC!

Have you ever used copper in your FW tank? Need to think carefully if you have before using it in a reef system. That actually goes for most equipment the fresh water has come in contact with. There may be a way to adequately clean it, I'm not certain, but you need to ensure that you won't have copper in a salt system.

Brute is perfect for RODI storage. It will need to be cleaned on occasion. You'll likely need another for salt mixing.

As to rock, I'd start on the low end, get it in the tank, and see what you can do with it. I think this is one area where people tend to go overboard and have huge piles of rock that leave no space for corals to grow up and out.

Sump, strongly consider putting dividers in place to section off your sump into at least two, and possibly three, areas. One area will be where your tank drains to and frequently where we put our skimmers. So, make sure it's large enough to hold any skimmer you're considering. The other two areas are a refugium if you want it to add additional biofilter capacity and possibly assist in the growth of pods. The final area is for your return pump. You'll want to balance the size of this space. The bigger it is the longer you can go without topping it off. The downside to that is the longer you go without topping it off the greater your salinity changes. This usually isn't a problem but you're new. Better safe than sorry.

Pumps. Personally I try to have the flow through my sump roughly equal the flow through the skimmer. Some people think that matters, others don't. Likely both are right lol! I like to have the bulk of my turnover come from power heads, not the return. You may be able to go a little lighter on your return, but do remember to take head loss into account. Tip on return pumps. By quality. It's perhaps the most critical piece of your tank's life support system. This doesn't have to be crazy expensive. But make sure to read reviews. Then, by a second one as a backup.

Wait on UV. It's a nice to have, not a must have.

Controller. Apex or bust IMO. I wouldn't still be in this hobby if it wasn't for Neptune Systems lol! But definitely look at others just to be sure.

Good luck and ask plenty of questions!

 

[saltwaterwannabe]

RedStang;1062980 wrote: First off, welcome to the ARC!

Have you ever used copper in your FW tank? Need to think carefully if you have before using it in a reef system. That actually goes for most equipment the fresh water has come in contact with. There may be a way to adequately clean it, I'm not certain, but you need to ensure that you won't have copper in a salt system.

Brute is perfect for RODI storage. It will need to be cleaned on occasion. You'll likely need another for salt mixing.

As to rock, I'd start on the low end, get it in the tank, and see what you can do with it. I think this is one area where people tend to go overboard and have huge piles of rock that leave no space for corals to grow up and out.

Sump, strongly consider putting dividers in place to section off your sump into at least two, and possibly three, areas. One area will be where your tank drains to and frequently where we put our skimmers. So, make sure it's large enough to hold any skimmer you're considering. The other two areas are a refugium if you want it to add additional biofilter capacity and possibly assist in the growth of pods. The final area is for your return pump. You'll want to balance the size of this space. The bigger it is the longer you can go without topping it off. The downside to that is the longer you go without topping it off the greater your salinity changes. This usually isn't a problem but you're new. Better safe than sorry.

Pumps. Personally I try to have the flow through my sump roughly equal the flow through the skimmer. Some people think that matters, others don't. Likely both are right lol! I like to have the bulk of my turnover come from power heads, not the return. You may be able to go a little lighter on your return, but do remember to take head loss into account. Tip on return pumps. By quality. It's perhaps the most critical piece of your tank's life support system. This doesn't have to be crazy expensive. But make sure to read reviews. Then, by a second one as a backup.

Wait on UV. It's a nice to have, not a must have.

Controller. Apex or bust IMO. I wouldn't still be in this hobby if it wasn't for Neptune Systems lol! But definitely look at others just to be sure.

Good luck and ask plenty of questions!

Thanks for the advice. I have never run copper directly within my system , but I do use aged tapwater for the cichlids. I am assuming that using non-RODI tapwater is what you are referring to since I have copper lines in my house? If so, can I clean the tank thoroughly and maybe cut some of the radius portion of the silicone off the glass then reseal to get rid of the copper after scraping the glass?

I definitely plan to build whatever tank I use as a sump with glass or acrylic baffles to accommodate a drain area with skimmer, refugium, bubble walls, and return chamber.

For the flow, I have read in many places that you need to turn over the water in the system 4 times an hour for corral. Is this correct?

I missed powerheads in the post, I need to add those as well. The controller is a major desire, but I simply cannot afford it for a few months unless my table sells due to unexpected surgery bills today.

Thanks again for the advice, I do not wish to learn by fish or coral kills.

 

[redstang]

Only a concern if you directly treated your tank with copper. You're good to go it sounds.

For flow, that turnover can come from your return pump and from power heads. And it likely needs to be a bit higher than 4 times. I ran my 60 cube closer to 10x turnover.

Understand completely on the controller. It was a major purchase for me too and not one I bought immediately.

I have to admit, a coral dying never really bothered me lol! I still consider them plants. Losing fish bothers me. Thankfully I've only lost a few over the years.

A good plan is to scour the Drygoods section for used equipment. It's a great way to save on quality equipment. I've had nothing but great experiences buying on the forum. Still need to do your due diligence.

Take it slow.

 

[elithelion]

I've never used a controller....... Then again I have no life outside constantly tinkering with my tanks

 

[saltwaterwannabe]

Thanks for the clarification about tank turnover, that will make a $ difference in sizing equipment. That said, I would like to use my Filstar 2 canister filter as a pump for a while if possible. Is 300 gph (maybe as low as 275 with bends, age, etc...) enough running through my sump?

Since I am running an overflow from my sump to the household plumbing, I was planning to do automated or semi-automated water changes. The RODI mixed water will be in the basement below, so I plan to pump the water to the sump but not allow the hose to be in the water of the sump to prevent siphoning, with an overflow from the sump to the household plumbing. I am wondering if I need a pump or something to keep the RODI mixed water stirred for this purpose. I have everything except the small pump to push the mixed water to the tank or sump. If I need to put a large enough pump into the mixed water to keep it stirred, I may wait on the full automation piece and simply stir before starting the timer.

 

[saltwaterwannabe]

ElitheLion;1062984 wrote: I've never used a controller....... Then again I have no life outside constantly tinkering with my tanks

That is what my wife is afraid of....lol:tongue:

 

[redstang]

SaltWaterWannabe;1062985 wrote: Thanks for the clarification about tank turnover, that will make a $ difference in sizing equipment. That said, I would like to use my Filstar 2 canister filter as a pump for a while if possible. Is 300 gph (maybe as low as 275 with bends, age, etc...) enough running through my sump?

Since I am running an overflow from my sump to the household plumbing, I was planning to do automated or semi-automated water changes. The RODI mixed water will be in the basement below, so I plan to pump the water to the sump but not allow the hose to be in the water of the sump to prevent siphoning, with an overflow from the sump to the household plumbing. I am wondering if I need a pump or something to keep the RODI mixed water stirred for this purpose. I have everything except the small pump to push the mixed water to the tank or sump. If I need to put a large enough pump into the mixed water to keep it stirred, I may wait on the full automation piece and simply stir before starting the timer.

I'd figure out which skimmer you want to run and then match the flow to be close or slightly over the skimmer flow rating.

You do need a small pump to keep your mixed salt water stirred. It can be on a timer. I ran mine for 15 minutes every hour but that may have been a little overkill.

On your automation idea. A concern I have is for it to be automated the level needs to be close to overflowing when operating normally. That means any time you turn off your return it would overflow from the excess water from the tank. Unless the idea is to shut down the return, let the tank drain into the sump which would put the water at the right level, and then do the water change. Even that's sounds risky to me but it might work. Let us know lol!

One other piece of advice. There are many ways to do something and many of them can work just as well as others. So seek many opinions to your questions and go with what you feel comfortable with. You could take two identical setups, put them in two different homes, practice the same husbandry techniques, and still wind up with a wildly different result. It can be good to copy someone's ideas or setup but don't expect it to lead to equal results. Along the same vein is don't be afraid to try something different. Hopefully we'll get more people chiming in here today.

 

[saltwaterwannabe]

RedStang;1063004 wrote: I'd figure out which skimmer you want to run and then match the flow to be close or slightly over the skimmer flow rating.

You do need a small pump to keep your mixed salt water stirred. It can be on a timer. I ran mine for 15 minutes every hour but that may have been a little overkill.

On your automation idea. A concern I have is for it to be automated the level needs to be close to overflowing when operating normally. That means any time you turn off your return it would overflow from the excess water from the tank. Unless the idea is to shut down the return, let the tank drain into the sump which would put the water at the right level, and then do the water change. Even that's sounds risky to me but it might work. Let us know lol!

One other piece of advice. There are many ways to do something and many of them can work just as well as others. So seek many opinions to your questions and go with what you feel comfortable with. You could take two identical setups, put them in two different homes, practice the same husbandry techniques, and still wind up with a wildly different result. It can be good to copy someone's ideas or setup but don't expect it to lead to equal results. Along the same vein is don't be afraid to try something different. Hopefully we'll get more people chiming in here today.

I certainly appreciate the advice, all advice is welcome. I have learned that there are uncountable opinions about how to achieve certain goals in tanks and that most of them likely work well. With the amount of research I have done, I have learned that this is going to be hobby rich with new and interesting learning experiences and will be a lot of fun. I only hope that my tank can measure up to others I have seen here and that it will become a beautiful center of attention full of character.

I think I have the overflow figured out. Before I actually build it, I will post a drawing of it online for further advice with an explanation of how it works. I studied fluid mechanics in school and relied on it heavily in my past, so I hope I can make it work. I would obviously rather have someone with experience point out any flaws before I learn the hard way though

I am debating on building either a 5 foot tall 4" pvc counter flow skimmer to stand behind my tank or to build a 6.5 gallon venturi style skimmer with an unused carboy in my sump (similar to a 6.5 gallon water tank but with a large opening on top used for fermenting beer/wine). I have most of the parts for either option from other projects except for the micro stones or venturi pump. One thing I have learned from reading is that a good skimmer can save some $ on salt for water changes. From what I have read, it would seem that either option would be good since each are substantially larger than the minimum recommendations I have found online. Does anyone have any thoughts on the skimmer ideas?

 

[saltwaterwannabe]

So I had to bail on the 120 gal setup due to unexpected bills and am looking to convert my 55 gal to salt. I picked up a used rodi unit and pump tonight. Is there any reason I can not use a garden hose to connect the rodi unit for a while?

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[saltwaterwannabe]

The pool table sold...now to get the rest of the stuff for a new tank setup and convert my 55 to a qt...or maybe my 55 to a saltwater and buy a biocube or something similar for a qt? I have plenty of space in the basement right below the tank location for a qt, which is where my RODI will be making water too. All I need to make my 55 a qt are an overflow (or drill it which I prefer) and a skimmer. Any recomendations on which way is better for my first salt setup? Also, should I move this discussion to a different forum or is this the right place?

 

[redstang]

New Member Q&A. This is the right place lol!

Personally, I'd always recommend a drilled tank. I'm sure there's people that ran overflows without issue but drilling is much safer. At least as long as you're sure the glass isn't tempered.

 

[elithelion]

55 isn't a bad size, but if you can afford it you'd most likely be happier with a larger tank Again, it's better to have a 55 with all the right equipment, LR, etc than go for a larger tank you can't afford or have time to manage.

I'd definitely try to drill the tank, rather than install an overflow. Overflows are just extra trouble in my expierence, but that's just me. If you do decide to drill the 55 make sure its not tempered

Just realized I said the exact thing as stang...so +1

 

[saltwaterwannabe]

When I said overflow, i meant a drilled back back or bottom, both cases with an internal overflow weir box. From everything I have read, I need to drain the tank to really test for tempered glass. Cichlids should go back to the store this weekend, at which time I can drain and see if it is tempered. I do not think the sides are tempered, but I have not found a teat I trust unless the tank is empty so I am inky looking thriugh one oane if glass at a time.

I appreciate the comment about a properly fitted 55 vs a larger tank, that is a concern of mine and will affect how quickly I can stock fish/corals. I figure I only need to introduce a about 3 small fish to start then one or two a week till 8m am at ariut 15? This wiouple of small fish a week for the bio load, so I do not think worrying abiut a lot of fish stock up frint is a concernn. Is a larger tank a lot more to manage?

I am seeing a lot of 90 or 120 gallons in my range, a couple of the 90s have plenty of rock included, the 120s do not. Both are in contention, although I am rethinking a large cube since it fits the space better. The current 55 overhangs a window frame that has a thick curtain bunched up alongside the tank. The limited sunlight has nit bee an issue in freshwater, but I know it is more important to manage it in saltwater.

Bottom line is I want a lot of fish and some coral. The coral will be a few months out either way since I want to master the saltwater system first and I may want dosing pumps when I do. I can place a giant refuge in the basement if it is needed, but I am concerned about the display tank size being able to hold enough fish and maturing corals.

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[saltwaterwannabe]

The edits took too long, below is how I was editing my last comment...time for bed.

When I said overflow, i hope it is a drilled back back or bottom, both cases with an internal overflow weir box. From everything I have read, I need to drain the tank to really test for tempered glass. Cichlids should go back to the store this weekend, at which time I can drain and see if it is tempered. I do not think the sides are tempered, but I have not found a test I trust unless the tank is empty so I am looking through one pane if glass at a time.

I appreciate the comment about a properly fitted 55 vs a larger tank, that is a concern of mine and will affect how quickly I can stock fish/corals. I figure I only need to introduce a about 3 small fish to start then one or two a week till I am around 15 to 25? This would allow the bioload to grow slowly, spread my expenses out, and leave more funds available for my tank setup. Is a larger tank a lot more to manage?

I am seeing a lot of 90 or 120 gallons in my range, a couple of the 90s have plenty of rock included, the 120s do not. Both are in contention, although I am rethinking a large cube since it fits the space better. The current 55 overhangs a window frame (not the window itself) that has a thick curtain bunched up alongside the tank. The limited sunlight has not been an issue in freshwater, but I know it is more important to manage it in saltwater. I want a fair amount of rock. I have seen pictures that seem to indicate I want about 50 pounds of rock total if I use my 55 as the main, some of which may be in the sump.

I want a lot of fish and some coral. The coral will likely be a few months out either way since I want to master the saltwater system first, cannot really afford much corral now, and I may want dosing pumps when I do. I can place a giant refuge in the basement if it is needed (think huge, not much limitation), but I am concerned about the display tank size being able to hold enough fish and maturing corals.

I am hoping to stock a lot of fish over a few months. I am looking at 3-5 clowns, 2-3 damsels, 2-3 butterflies, 1 tang(s), wrass, 1 puffer, 3-5 gobies, a starfish, shrimp, and snails. I would love a trigger and my 7 year old son is dead set on at least one eel since we have a brackish water one now that we will get rid of. I have not researched compatibility yet and have not put a lot of thought into what coral yet.

I am reading Marine Reef Aquarium Handbook by Goldstein and am not yet half way through. I certainly appreciate the help and advice, I think experience counts a lot, and I have none.

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[saltwaterwannabe]

It looks like I am going with an Oceanic 90 gallon tall bowfront, picking it up in the morning with all equipment incl. lights, sump, skimmer, reactors, pump, powerheads, rr plumbing, etc... . The seller seems to be helping me out great with advice and is helping me to get a decent set up. I always try to listen to advice from others more experienced than me. Any advice anyone wants to throw my way before I pick it up?

 

[saltwaterwannabe]

SaltWaterWannabe;1064060 wrote: It looks like I am going with an Oceanic 90 gallon tall bowfront, picking it up in the morning with all equipment incl. lights, sump, skimmer, reactors, pump, powerheads, rr plumbing, etc... . The seller seems to be helping me out great with advice and is helping me to get a decent set up. I always try to listen to advice from others more experienced than me. Any advice anyone wants to throw my way before I pick it up?

Since I have changed my setup quite a bit, I am going to stop using this thread and start a new one. This thread can be closed.