6 month old tank and alk will not go up with 2 part alk...

[davidinga]

210gal dt and 75gal sump
pH 8.0
Alk 7.8
Cal 415
Mag 1400

Super slow build so far with only a small patch of xenia, zoa's and a baseball sized hammer coral. 6 small fish.

Used dry marco rocks and only 4-5 pieces of LR that have coraline algae on them. Coraline has not spread off those original lr pieces.

So really nothing to speak of that could be soaking up much alk, right?

I have been using kalk in my ato that thus far has been keeping parameters bring healthy and only just last week started 2 part dosing alk to try to raise it.

I started dosing brs 2 part alk 8-15-13 and dosed 3 fl oz. Next day no change.

Dosed 3 fl oz again 8-16-13 and got a little jump the next day up to 8.0alk.

Now I have continued to dose 3 fl oz of alk everyday since 8-15-13 and today 8-21-13 my alk came back at 7.8 again! Is this possible? That's 21 fl oz of alk I have added and my alk has not gone up... What the heck?

Am I missing something here or what? It'd be one thing if my tank had more coral or coraline to soak up the alk but this is a pretty bare tank...


Thoughts?

 

[davidinga]

Oh and I'm using a red Sea test kit that is only a few months old.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

hi david, I also used marco rocks and like 2 pieces of live rock to seed the tank. I used about 1/2" live sand also in the tank. My parameters have been almost identical to yours and I have the same tank behavior.

My ph (apex sensor) ranges from 8.04 in the morning to 8.14 at the end of the day typically
alk between 7.6 and 7.8 (red sea pro)
calc was around 400 for a long time but lately i've gotten it up to 435
magnesium's been between 1400 and 1500 pretty much since the beginning

the brs 2 part isn't very powerful in my experience. It's for maintaining, not adjusting. You need to use an alk booster addative and then maintain with 2 part once you get to the level you want. For me, i used to add alk booster and calc booster (at separate times of course) and for the life of me I couldn't get my alk above 8.0. Same with calc, i'd have a coating of precipitated stuff in the sump but couldn't for the life of me get my calc above 400. Not sure what's changed in the last month but now it caps out around 430 (meaning i add 4 tsp of calc buffer and no change the next day).
I have a 120 gallon tank and i dose about 14 to 16 ml of brs 2 part alk a night and that maintains it for me. I've had it up to about 30 ml a night and it still stayed at 7.8 dkh.

I've been able to get by on kalk in my ATO until the last month but I guess corals are growing cause I keep having to add calc buffer so I'm going to set up the doser for calc this weekend.
My tanks about 10 months old now and it's been super slow to get purple corraline algae. I attribute part of that to the dang asterina stars. All the spots on the glass that develop are eaten and gone within a few days it seems.

I also tried changing from io to reef crystals io, now to red sea coral pro. I tried changing 15 gallons on a WC but the stuff so amped up that my corals freak out and throw out filements. So now I change 4 gallons about 5 times a week and there's no problems.

The red sea test at like 11.5 dkh, 500 calc, and 1500 mag but after an entire bucket my tank still hovers in the same spot.

I've seen plenty of amazing tanks in the 7.8 dkh range (TOTM type stuff) so I wouldn't worry about it too much, just be careful not to let it drop down below about 7.4 or you may have issues with corals. Mine dropped to 6.8 when I was on vacation and it took about a week or 2 to get everything happy again.

I think that 8.0 jump you mentioned was testing error, it's pretty easy to be off by .2 on those red sea tests imo.

my 2 cents. Let me know if you figure anything out.

 

[ralph atl]

Are you using the most common Sodium Carbonate (Ash) or Sodium Bicarbonate?

and pretty much soda ash is soda is soda ash no matter who makes it...even yourself....



instead of randomly guessing, why don't you use this handy calculator?

 

[darrrenjmartin]

Super slow build so far with only a small patch of xenia, zoa's and a baseball sized hammer coral. 6 small fish.
I don't understand. Who told you you need kalk now?
Why are you adjusting or adding any minerals on 6 months old the tank isn't seeded. Its still getting established. No bio load. Filaments shooting out means the animals are happy unless is it guts puking out of the mouth You shouldn't be kalking with no calcium load or adding any minerals. 210 is big and stable.
You should get the water set up to the parameters boasted on the salt label With just water changes.
then you watch it drop and fix it with wc .If you set the s.g. At 1.026you can easily achieve 500 and maintain with small water changes 10 -15 gallons with your present population.
Maybe a little I or moly/.
Do you have any aragonite substrate. That stuff really helps maintain alk and ph. As the rocks get seeded , they will release minerals,
If you" precipitated"the mineral balance is so off , you may never get the parameters straight adding suppl. This is proof you over did it
20-25 weekly w changes. ..You may need to change a 100+ gallons .. The animals will be fine.
I had a 110 tank drain empty , hollow like ,and had to buy 50-60 gallons of bottled ro water to cover the animals.
After a day or so I was able to get the water moving. The animals never looked fatter. My Xenia stated pulsing..
Go thru one by one and Take all your pumps apart and soak in vinegar . Skimmer... Lines.. Socks.....
Ect
Marty

 

[davidinga]

outdrsyguy1;891776 wrote: hi david, I also used marco rocks and like 2 pieces of live rock to seed the tank. I used about 1/2" live sand also in the tank. My parameters have been almost identical to yours and I have the same tank behavior.

My ph (apex sensor) ranges from 8.04 in the morning to 8.14 at the end of the day typically
alk between 7.6 and 7.8 (red sea pro)
calc was around 400 for a long time but lately i've gotten it up to 435
magnesium's been between 1400 and 1500 pretty much since the beginning

the brs 2 part isn't very powerful in my experience. It's for maintaining, not adjusting. You need to use an alk booster addative and then maintain with 2 part once you get to the level you want. For me, i used to add alk booster and calc booster (at separate times of course) and for the life of me I couldn't get my alk above 8.0. Same with calc, i'd have a coating of precipitated stuff in the sump but couldn't for the life of me get my calc above 400. Not sure what's changed in the last month but now it caps out around 430 (meaning i add 4 tsp of calc buffer and no change the next day).
I have a 120 gallon tank and i dose about 14 to 16 ml of brs 2 part alk a night and that maintains it for me. I've had it up to about 30 ml a night and it still stayed at 7.8 dkh.

I've been able to get by on kalk in my ATO until the last month but I guess corals are growing cause I keep having to add calc buffer so I'm going to set up the doser for calc this weekend.
My tanks about 10 months old now and it's been super slow to get purple corraline algae. I attribute part of that to the dang asterina stars. All the spots on the glass that develop are eaten and gone within a few days it seems.

I also tried changing from io to reef crystals io, now to red sea coral pro. I tried changing 15 gallons on a WC but the stuff so amped up that my corals freak out and throw out filements. So now I change 4 gallons about 5 times a week and there's no problems.

The red sea test at like 11.5 dkh, 500 calc, and 1500 mag but after an entire bucket my tank still hovers in the same spot.

I've seen plenty of amazing tanks in the 7.8 dkh range (TOTM type stuff) so I wouldn't worry about it too much, just be careful not to let it drop down below about 7.4 or you may have issues with corals. Mine dropped to 6.8 when I was on vacation and it took about a week or 2 to get everything happy again.

I think that 8.0 jump you mentioned was testing error, it's pretty easy to be off by .2 on those red sea tests imo.

my 2 cents. Let me know if you figure anything out.

Hmm... That's an odd coincidence.


It doesn't make sense to me that after adding so much 2 part the alk still won't budge. I thought brs brand 2 part was very wide spread and did easily raise alk levels on its own, right?

 

[davidinga]

I found an older test I did on 6-12-13 and my alk then was 9.2 so something has changed because it used to go up...

 

[davidinga]

mysterybox;891797 wrote: Are you using the most common Sodium Carbonate (Ash) or Sodium Bicarbonate?

and pretty much soda ash is soda is soda ash no matter who makes it...even yourself....



instead of randomly guessing, why don't you use this handy calculator?

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-calculator">http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-calculator</a>[/QUOTE]


Yeah it's soda ash from BRS. I used the calculator and ended up dosing 3fl oz.

Edit: [QUOTE=][B]darrrenjmartin;891801 wrote:[/B] Super slow build so far with only a small patch of xenia, zoa's and a baseball sized hammer coral. 6 small fish.
I don't understand. Who told you you need kalk now?

[B]I started dosing kalk because I originally setup my tank with instant ocean and my cal level was 340. I have also struggled with chronic low pH that kalk helped correct.[/B]


Why are you adjusting or adding any minerals on 6 months old the tank isn't seeded. Its still getting established. No bio load. Filaments shooting out means the animals are happy unless is it guts puking out of the mouth You shouldn't be kalking with no calcium load or adding any minerals. 210 is big and stable.
You should get the water set up to the parameters boasted on the salt label With just water changes.
then you watch it drop and fix it with wc .If you set the s.g. At 1.026you can easily achieve 500 and maintain with small water changes 10 -15 gallons with your present population.
Maybe a little I or moly/.
Do you have any aragonite substrate.

[B]Yeah I have about 2" of oolite.[/B]


That stuff really helps maintain alk and ph. As the rocks get seeded , they will release minerals,
If you" precipitated"the mineral balance is so off , you may never get the parameters straight adding suppl. This is proof you over did it
20-25 weekly w changes. ..You may need to change a 100+ gallons .. The animals will be fine.
I had a 110 tank drain empty , hollow like ,and had to buy 50-60 gallons of bottled ro water to cover the animals.
After a day or so I was able to get the water moving. The animals never looked fatter. My Xenia stated pulsing..
Go thru one by one and Take all your pumps apart and soak in vinegar . Skimmer... Lines.. Socks.....
Ect
Marty[/QUOTE]



So far everything seems happy healthy in my tank but I would like to get the alk levels up. Shouldn't the BRS 2 part (soda ash) be able to do something at the levels I've been dosing at or do I need a alk booster additive like [B]outdrsyguy1 [/B] suggested?

Edit: [QUOTE=][B]DavidinGA;891830 wrote:[/B] <span style="font-size: 15px">I found an older test I did on 6-12-13 and my alk then was 9.2 so something has changed because it used to go up...</span>[/QUOTE]

 

[davidinga]

outdrsyguy1;891776 wrote: hi david, I also used marco rocks and like 2 pieces of live rock to seed the tank. I used about 1/2" live sand also in the tank. My parameters have been almost identical to yours and I have the same tank behavior.

My ph (apex sensor) ranges from 8.04 in the morning to 8.14 at the end of the day typically
alk between 7.6 and 7.8 (red sea pro)
calc was around 400 for a long time but lately i've gotten it up to 435
magnesium's been between 1400 and 1500 pretty much since the beginning

the brs 2 part isn't very powerful in my experience. It's for maintaining, not adjusting. You need to use an alk booster addative and then maintain with 2 part once you get to the level you want. For me, i used to add alk booster and calc booster (at separate times of course) and for the life of me I couldn't get my alk above 8.0. Same with calc, i'd have a coating of precipitated stuff in the sump but couldn't for the life of me get my calc above 400. Not sure what's changed in the last month but now it caps out around 430 (meaning i add 4 tsp of calc buffer and no change the next day).
I have a 120 gallon tank and i dose about 14 to 16 ml of brs 2 part alk a night and that maintains it for me. I've had it up to about 30 ml a night and it still stayed at 7.8 dkh.

I've been able to get by on kalk in my ATO until the last month but I guess corals are growing cause I keep having to add calc buffer so I'm going to set up the doser for calc this weekend.
My tanks about 10 months old now and it's been super slow to get purple corraline algae. I attribute part of that to the dang asterina stars. All the spots on the glass that develop are eaten and gone within a few days it seems.

I also tried changing from io to reef crystals io, now to red sea coral pro. I tried changing 15 gallons on a WC but the stuff so amped up that my corals freak out and throw out filements. So now I change 4 gallons about 5 times a week and there's no problems.

The red sea test at like 11.5 dkh, 500 calc, and 1500 mag but after an entire bucket my tank still hovers in the same spot.

I've seen plenty of amazing tanks in the 7.8 dkh range (TOTM type stuff) so I wouldn't worry about it too much, just be careful not to let it drop down below about 7.4 or you may have issues with corals. Mine dropped to 6.8 when I was on vacation and it took about a week or 2 to get everything happy again.

I think that 8.0 jump you mentioned was testing error, it's pretty easy to be off by .2 on those red sea tests imo.

my 2 cents. Let me know if you figure anything out.

How much alk have you tried to dose to raise your levels?

Edit: One other variable to throw in the mix....


I am running a little bit of gfo in a reactor and had heard gfo can lower alk - true? I am only running 2 cups of regular gfo though; doesn't seem like enough gfo to cause alk issues though....

 

[mph84]

Why are you worried about raising that? IMO it's fine where it is

 

[dylpik27]

I had a similar problem with my last aquarium and while using BRS alk. I still use the BRS products for my new tank and don't have the problem.

Here's what I believe happened and why:
In my old tank, I have a large grade sand. I also did not have enough flow (things settled) and I didn't have the CUC or fish to keep the sand stirred. When I tore down my tank I noticed the sand had compacted and almost fused together - like a solid rock in some places. I have no scientific data, etc. to back this up, but I believe the alk I was adding and adding was taken from it's liquid form (what we test for) and bound up in my sand.

Will someone with knowledge chime in and tell me if that is at all a possible answer?

 

[ksicard]

3 fl oz. = about 90ml of BRS solution, 90ml on a 210+75g tank will bearly budge your parameters. Your over thinking this, raise your Alk by using a salt brand with high DKH and use dosing to maintain levels, not raise. Typically most large tanks use CA reactors instead of dosing just due to the fact that dosing requires large amounts on larger systems. I use BRS supplements for dosing and I dose half of 3 fl oz. daily on my 75g tank, hope that puts things in perspective for you.

 

[davidinga]

ksicard;892099 wrote: 3 fl oz. = about 90ml of BRS solution, 90ml on a 210+75g tank will bearly budge your parameters. Your over thinking this, raise your Alk by using a salt brand with high DKH and use dosing to maintain levels, not raise. Typically most large tanks use CA reactors instead of dosing just due to the fact that dosing requires large amounts on larger systems. I use BRS supplements for dosing and I dose half of 3 fl oz. daily on my 75g tank, hope that puts things in perspective for you.

Ok.

I dosed 6fl oz this morning instead of the 3 I had been doing. Will see what happens.


On a more positive note, I have noticed a huge explosion of growth in those tiny little white spiral feather dusters all over the glass since I started attempting to raise my alk levels... Must be doing some good regardless of what the test kit says about my alk levels.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

Hey David, does your tank by chance have a lot of precipant in the sump where you add your alk and kalkwasser? I found that my ATO kalkwasser was floating near the top of the sump and not mixing well (it's fresh water and can literally stratify on top of the salt). My alk would drip in through that layer and cause a precipitant and basically be neutralized. Once I put my ATO makeup into the outlet of my skimmer I found the 2 part solution working much better to maintain alkalinity

 

[davidinga]

outdrsyguy1;899560 wrote: Hey David, does your tank by chance have a lot of precipant in the sump where you add your alk and kalkwasser? I found that my ATO kalkwasser was floating near the top of the sump and not mixing well (it's fresh water and can literally stratify on top of the salt). My alk would drip in through that layer and cause a precipitant and basically be neutralized. Once I put my ATO makeup into the outlet of my skimmer I found the 2 part solution working much better to maintain alkalinity

No never had that problem.

I have gotten my alk up after dosing 6+ oz over the course of a few days

I'm sitting at 9.5 now and keeping her steady...