A Beginner's Guide To Dosing With Calcium

[linda lee]

johnr2604;280302 wrote: I am also currently looking into dosing Kalk with my topoff. You can build a reactor for cheap out of water filter canister then just plumb it into the ATO. I am going to give it a shot as soon as I get my ATO setup.

I hope you'll do a DYI build thread for this. Your build threads are always so informative and detailed.

 

[johnr2604]

Linda Lee;280303 wrote: I hope you'll do a DYI build thread for this. Your build threads are always so informative and detailed.

Will do. I think there is some info on here already.

 

[ralph atl]

George;279950 wrote: Salifert test kits are quite good and reasonably priced. Seachem also makes very consistent kits.

If you choose to go with Seachem products, however, I would say don't use anything other than the Seachem test kits. From talking to them when they've been at our meetings, their products work best as a suite.

Sorry, but I disagree. Their test kits ummm...inconsistent at best. IMHO, just because u use their salt, doesn't mean u need to use anything else. That's pure marketing. For 2 part use bulkreefsupply or B-ionic, or topoff with Kalk, or get a calcium reactor. This way u get what your tank needs w/o going broke, too!

 

[george]

mysterybox;280321 wrote: Sorry, but I disagree. Their test kits ummm...inconsistent at best. IMHO, just because u use their salt, doesn't mean u need to use anything else. That's pure marketing. For 2 part use bulkreefsupply or B-ionic, or topoff with Kalk, or get a calcium reactor. This way u get what your tank needs w/o going broke, too!

I was referring not to the use of their salt, but the use of their calcium and buffer products. As AWT found in their testing, nobody's salt is complete so in my opinion, it's not that important.

Seachem's suggested dosages for increases, reference solutions, and test kit figures are all targeted at their products and testing kits. I doubt they put together their buffer/builder line or Aquavitro and then tested and calibrated the results using Lamote kits. It is most likely that when their calcium supplement says "x ml raises y gallons by z ppm calcium" that figure will show up as such on their test kit and not necessarily another company's. And it's not like their products are ridiculously overpriced compared to anyone else's lineup. These products are not in the Bulk Reef Supply, kalk, or calcium reactor categories. Beginners shouldn't be starting there.

And as for consistency, I have found on reference solution from Seachem, Salifert and Seachem give the same results every single time. Granted they are off from each other, but consistently so. Never once, however, did Seachem's kit test their 400 calcium reference solution by any difference that wasn't easily within the boundaries of a titration kit.

Bulk Reef supply is good for people who want to not only mix their own solutions, but recalibrate their dosing each time because no two batches will mix the same unless you're using lab grade measuring methods. The title of the thread is "A Beginner's Guide To Dosing With Calcium" not "The cheapest way to dose calcium and buffer". Suggesting a beginner dive into mixing their own two-part, dose with Kalk, or fork up for an expensive calcium reactor is poor advice. ESV's products are quite good, but I think Seachem's products are easier and more complete.

 

[ralph atl]

George;280343 wrote: I was referring not to the use of their salt, but the use of their calcium and buffer products. As AWT found in their testing, nobody's salt is complete so in my opinion, it's not that important.

my misunderstanding, I apologize!

 

[johnr2604]

George although I agree with alot of things you post. I have to disagree here. Bulkreefsupply is just as easy as any two part IMO if not easier because they also regulate the mag. As far as it being inconsistant because you mix it yourself is stretching it. I am quite sure that the packages are measured with lab grade equipment and I dont believe that an ounce or two difference in the amount of water added to a gallon will be enough to budge the numbers enough to matter. As with any dosing regiment testing is key. If you are dosing without testing any product it will end in disaster. No matter what product you use your SPS and LPS are going to grow and the uptake is going to change so no matter what you use its going you are going to have to adjust the dosing. Therefore I believe BRS is fine for beginers. Shoot its the same thing as two part you just have to mix it yourself. As far as Kalk reactors and calcium reactors I agree these are not for beginers, BRS is not in that catagory IMO.

George;280343 wrote: I was referring not to the use of their salt, but the use of their calcium and buffer products. As AWT found in their testing, nobody's salt is complete so in my opinion, it's not that important.

Seachem's suggested dosages for increases, reference solutions, and test kit figures are all targeted at their products and testing kits. I doubt they put together their buffer/builder line or Aquavitro and then tested and calibrated the results using Lamote kits. It is most likely that when their calcium supplement says "x ml raises y gallons by z ppm calcium" that figure will show up as such on their test kit and not necessarily another company's. And it's not like their products are ridiculously overpriced compared to anyone else's lineup. These products are not in the Bulk Reef Supply, kalk, or calcium reactor categories. Beginners shouldn't be starting there.

And as for consistency, I have found on reference solution from Seachem, Salifert and Seachem give the same results every single time. Granted they are off from each other, but consistently so. Never once, however, did Seachem's kit test their 400 calcium reference solution by any difference that wasn't easily within the boundaries of a titration kit.

Bulk Reef supply is good for people who want to not only mix their own solutions, but recalibrate their dosing each time because no two batches will mix the same unless you're using lab grade measuring methods. The title of the thread is "A Beginner's Guide To Dosing With Calcium" not "The cheapest way to dose calcium and buffer". Suggesting a beginner dive into mixing their own two-part, dose with Kalk, or fork up for an expensive calcium reactor is poor advice. ESV's products are quite good, but I think Seachem's products are easier and more complete.

 

[george]

I still say that any two-part, especially Bulk Reef Supply, is more trouble than the Seachem products. The alkalinity part of a two-part, while relatively hassle-free, is not as simple to use as Seachem's buffer products.

BRS is fairly simple, but very imprecise. As their own instructions include two different recipes (with unexplained reasons for using each), fairly vague dosing instructions, and assumes that their suggested volumes are completely dissolved in the RO water. Anyone who has used their chemicals knows that it takes quite some time to fully dissolve the flakes in the RO water and often they never do. The Magnesium solution almost never completely dissolves leaving it in an unknown state of saturation for dosing.

All these things seem simple and trivial to most reefers of moderate experience, but to the beginner, especially if they didn't go far in chemistry class, it can be daunting and lacking in instructions.

 

[ralph atl]

2 part (B-ionic & such) is relatively easy.

you must have a good calcium, alk, & mag test kit such as Elos.

you must find out your current levels and know your water volume,

use this chart to figure out how much extra is needed to get to the level where you want it.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html">chart</a>

then, after you obtain your levels over a period of time (a week or so), then you do a daily dose (twice daily better) of each part trying to maintain those levels. You will have to test often and make minor adjustments. Plus, if ya want, you could hook them up to an auto doser for your sump. After you parems are stable where you want them, it's very simple to maintain. periodically checking those parems.

 

[mfliin]

This is a great thread. I must say I got myself in too deep when I started.

I started using seachem or kent products, some Kalkwasser, and eventually made it to a calcium reactor. In the end, I literally killed my tank(took a few years, but it happened). I have since stuck with a 2 part solution(Kent), with an occasional addition of seachem mag or turbo calcium. I use the help of the local stores to get my testing done. (Thanks to Matt and his wife for testing and working out the dosing).
It helps me to get others involved before I start adding chemicals. The 2 part is bulletproof, it's the additional chemicals that seem to get me in trouble.
Also, my method has to be easy, as I am out of town quite a bit. So this means my g/f has to take care of everything while I'm gone. She doesn't have a lot of time for my fish, like I do.
So Kent 2 part solution-daily or every other day i (if I'm gone), with seachem Mag and kent turbo calcium (twice a month)

 

[george]

Nobody should take my posts to say that 2-parts are bad. ESV's, Kents, and even Bulk Reef Supply have excellent products and I've used all 3. They're just not "bullet proof" to borrow GARF's term.