A bunch of questions....

Hey, y'all...

I tried to respond from my Blackberry (note to self... Self, don't use the blackberry for this board... wait till you get to a computer.... yes.... you can make it that long....)

Linda, thanks for touching base with me on this.... the tanks which I referred to as working had a sump underneath them of roughly 1/4-1/3 the size of the tank itself (well.. actually, the 250 gallon had a 120 gallon sump). Other than that, there was no other other water volume (although it is a neat idea... when I replace this tank with a larger tank, I'll have to see how I can make that work).

I'm amazed about the tank's success so far in a salon, too.

The water has always tested perfectly except for a slight variance a couple times and a slight rise in ammonia a couple weeks ago that has since gone back down. I would have thought at least once I would have come back to a dead tank or something. It's not sealed, but it is canopied and the sump is behind the tank exposed to the elements, although the fumes don't usually seem to go down there very much if at all.

I DO think that I need to triple its size, though (I had to pick my addiction.. fish tanks or crack!)

The only problems I've been able to see over the past few days are that the dottybacks and the 6-line don't seem to like each other, but they'll typically leave each other alone unless territories get breached... I haven't seen any "let's go chase the other fish" or the tank ganging up on him yet.

The emperor angel and the flame tang bristletooth are very shy in the tank... I'm thinking that the yellow tang is keeping them somewhat at bay under a rock, although the emperor has started venturing out much more recently.

That ghost shrimp has either molted and been disappeared for a few days, or it died right there on the spot a few days ago. We'll see.

Other than that, all the fish are doing surprisingly well with each other... even the dragon goby has started coming out and swimming around. The anemone is almost consistently fully extended and inflated, and the coral banded shrimp is behaving itself... and the tank *seems* to be doing well (although we'll know for sure after a couple weeks to see where things end up).

Brandon, I admire and respect the passion. I've been working in the restuarant industry for the past five years or so and there has always been at least one saltwater tank in each location. I have seen/been through/learned a lot of painful lessons.

For example, one time, one of the employees was told to turn off the light in the fish tank and he turned off the entire system. Nobody knew until the next morning when several thousand dollars' worth of fish were dead on the bottom of the tank.

That was the morning that I started taking interest in tanks as someone who wanted to learn about them and know how they worked and to never let something like that happen again.

Hence, the reason for all my questions.

I'm viewing this hobby as a very happy hobby, and like any other hobby, it ignites some serious fires of passion (you ought to see what certain top chefs say about each other.... MEOWWWW!). It actually reminds me of a couple things...

I value the advice - and don't worry, I've got thick enough skin to separate the advice from the passion.

Whenever I meet someone who says "it can't be done," I remind myself that just recently, about one or two years ago, scientists and physics experts around the world...

...proved that the bumblebee could fly.

(they're still working on proving that helicopters can fly)

So please, just as respectfully, accept that I have seen other environments and biotopes succeed in tanks, and please accept that I am working in that direction... and when I separate the advice from the passion, please understand that it is just that, and that there is nothing personal being taken or implied.

And even though you're a Broncos fan and even though they thrashed the living shinola outta my falcons in the superbowl that year (okay... Eugene Robinson kinda thrashed the falcons that day... once I heard, I knew that the game was over hours before kickoff), I still love ya and admire the fact that you're willing to help a newb like me! :)

I'll keep y'all posted!
 
You're asking for very complex advice. You are getting very good consistent answers. You are resisting & refusing the advice?
You defer to your misses. Maybe, she could come online? It doesn't make sense to have a Sea Apple that 1 day WILL kill ALL tank inhabitants, does it? If everything is dead, what is the point? If you are keeping a mandarin that will die, than you're not going to have it anyway. Where is the logic? They might be ok for a while, but sometimes things take a little time to materialize.
 
David,

I agree fully with you, things CAN be done that are cutting edge and out of the norm... but there are a lot of really smart people around here that are really good at fish keeping and some of them are telling you to revise your thinking of reef keeping... Is it that they are a wuss and do not want to advise you to take risks or is it that they realize your experience level and are worried about your decisions and level of understanding? I think it is a bit of both. I could teach you how to use "driveway heat" ice melter in your tank as an additive. Would I dare do that? Not on your life! By your own admission, you are a noob and it would be too high of a risk vs reward IMHO and too high of a risk of nuking your tank but it works like a champ in someones tank that understands the chemistry of it all.

Because you have seen something in a tank does not mean that it worked in the long term! I have seen tanks that should not be running that will creep along until the point of disaster. I think that anyone with experience could predict that the life of that tank would be short but the person keeping the tank did not care because "it worked" in their mind. To me the animals in the tank are not disposable. I know some people feel that they are just fish and little value is placed on them as a pet vs a dog or a cat.

As a former "top chef" in many restaurants, believe me there is no lack of passion here. But my passion is only offered to people with open minds to honest advice. Not that you are forced to take my advice, just do not be surprised when I give it, you do not take it, you come back on here 2 months later going "everything is dead! Why?" and I sigh! ;)

BTW: Beating the falcons in the superbowl was one of the highlights of my life... We can move past that now that Dan Reeves is not the Falcons coach but it is the falcons fault for hiring that no talant boob!
 
(I guess this is where we should add a good halloween or horror movie soundtrack... maybe something from "Hannibal?")

Mystery,

I agree, the advice is very good - and consistent... and if I take an *honest* look in the mirror, I *am* resisting it... and I think it comes from something my mom taught me when I was growing up (as if I ever finished growing up! D'OH!): "can't never could."

or it could come from my own ego and stubbornness of saying "I'm already on this road..."

or it could just be that I don't quit what I start...

or maybe I'm not intelligent enough or too cold-hearted or whatever reason...

...and perhaps I *am* looking at some of these fish as being disposable.

I won't qualify that statement... it's not as if I'm going "ahhh, they're just fish..." it's knowing that even in the best maintained systems with marine biologists looking after them and doing their best to keep fish alive (such as the Georgia Aquarium)...

fish do die, and some will harrass and/or kill others.

It could be a prize lionfish, a yellow tang, a feeder goldfish or brine/mysis shrimp... (I'm starting to sound like Simba's dad in The Lion King...)

By the way, that's not a shot at the Georgia Aquarium... they are doing great work over there and it's a shame how some people try to blow things out of proportion and try to cast people who are doing good things in a bad light.

That's why I am not buying expensive fish yet... because I don't trust my ability to take care of them yet. This latest challenge is somewhat beyond me, but not so far that I can't get it figured out with the proper advice, which y'all have been really good about giving. Otherwise, I wouldn't have accepted the gift.

Why keep a sea apple that WILL kill the tank one day?

I've grown very attached to this guy over the past two years. It's a beautiful animal that gets all kinds of "oohs" and "ahhhs" from my wife's clients (bigger "oohs" when they find out what the apple will do one day). It adds a lot of beauty to the tank, without all of the sensitivities that come with corals.

Strangely, I can't bring myself to remove him.

It is going to nuke a tank somewhere or die in a trash can anyway... and it may as well be in my tank.

Why keep a mandarin that will (may) die?

The decision to accept him took a long time... I read that they don't do well in *any* tank... unless there is a constant suply of live rock and "pods."

When I read that all the chaeto in my tank is breeding ground for these "pods" which are evidently these little guys crawling through it (all answers from this community), I figured it was a good shot.

I wouldn't knowingly bring in an animal that I knew had no chance.
Toilet vs. my tank... I chose my tank for this guy.

It is *entirely* possible that I will be posting in a few weeks that everything died...

I'll know why they died at that point... and I will even be a man and post it up and say "hey, here's what's happened" and accept all the "I told you so" statements with class... and maybe it can become a thread that will teach future folks what happens when good advice is resisted.

(In fact... the way the two dottybacks are looking at each other today, I might be posting something really soon!)

Humbly (not arrogantly),

me
 
David, Thanks for taking the "bashing" in stride... Ok now lets get down to what we can do to help. If no one else steps up, I might be able to make the cross town trip next weekend, if you are interested. I also invite you over to my neck of the woods to see a tank that breaks some of the rules (11 fish in a 55 gal) and see some of the things I do to avoid some pitfalls that I have fallen into over the past 11 years and learned from. Let me know how I can help.
 
you guys i just talked to him and there are reasons that he is wanting to keep those things.

also in the next few months he is going to a 200g or around there(wife is makeing him). so that is 1 reason he is not getting a skimmer right now. i showed him some skimmers and he already has a freind who will help him do some things.

also david it was nice to meet you, and I hope to meet you again.
 
blind1993;95293 wrote: also in the next few months he is going to a 200g or around there(wife is makeing him). so that is 1 reason he is not getting a skimmer right now.

This doesn't make sense. Get a skimmer now that's big enough to support the 200g and there might actually be livestock to put in the 200g in a few months.....
 
Here's the latest on the tank... you'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll hurl.

Yes, I just referenced Wayne's World (ahhhw thank you)

I've been looking for answers and advice in many spots and consulting with folks who have been working with tanks for years, both here and elsewhere...

The most prevalent and recurring theme was filtration/getting rid of wastes. The second most common was the fish count... although interestingly enough, only two people mentioned the mix and gave examples.

The fish count/combination will sort itself out as nature so often does (or as I choose to intervene... more on that later)...

Filtration, however... well, that's something I can do something about immediately.

So today, in addition to a really cool chiller/warmer (thanks, Chris!), I got some sea grapes from Aance which I am going to grow and then introduce into the tank... By the way... if you ever need to staff a sales team, you need to get Aance on it. I went for a quick road trip to pick up a dime bag of weed... er, I mean a $10 bag of seaweed... and came back with that, a bunch of live rock for the sump and a skimmer...

Yipes!

Aance turned me on to Sal who helped me get the right combination of live rock for the sump and a skimmer.

So here's what's changed...

The chiller/heater is hooked up... I'll turn it on later since the temperature has been steady and the machine does one or the other (I need to switch it from cooling to heating).

The previously empty big chamber in the sump is now filled with live sand and live rock rubble... it's roughly about 20-25% of as much as I had previously in the tank, but now it gets all the water after coming out of the big sponge before it goes into the bio-confetti-shavings and back into the tank... so I've added a huge filtration step in there in addition to what the eco-system was doing on its own.

Then I added the skimmer... it's a sea-clone. I need to figure out where it's supposed to be set, but it's up and running (that's in a different thread).

Now on to the fish...

As predicted earlier, the dottybacks finally started to go at it this evening while I was gone... and they were open for business! We figured since they were being introduced at the same time, we'd have a chance at avoiding this, but I guess it was destined to be.

I caught the diadem dottyback and put him in the sump with the live rock... lots of room to hide and swim around in... and pulled the bio-ball-confetti-shavings up about halfway out of their chamber to keep it from jumping in there and getting stuck or jumping into the chamber with the powerheads.

Yes... I know he can't go back into that tank now... I'll figure that out later... I'm not ready to start a small tank for the sake of a dottyback.

The yellow tang which was getting along really peacefully with the foxface has decided that it doesn't like the emperor angel or the flame tang and is keeping them at bay inside a cave (which is open on two ends... hmmm....). Actually, the emperor angel seems to be able to come and go as he pleases.

(hmmm... a small tank for a diadem dottyback and a yellow tang....)

My red and white cone snails have emerged from underground but no sign from the ghost shrimp on whether or not it molted or went to shrimpy heaven.

(for the record... if the ghost shrimp is indeed gone, then with the exception of an emerald crab and a six-line wrasse, everything I have purchased from a specific LFS that will remain nameless has died within two weeks, while everything else that I have bought from other stores continues to thrive.... not being an a-hole about it... I'm just letting you know... I still love you guys)

So there we are for right now... I'll keep tabs on it and keep updates as thing happen.

Everyone, thank you VERY much for y'all's answers and y'all's advice... We'll see where this thing leads to!

Brandon, I'll PM you on the road trip!
 
davidbgreen;95391 wrote:
The fish count/combination will sort itself out as nature so often does (or as I choose to intervene... more on that later)...

Your getting excellent advice but I can't disagree more with the statement above do you really think having a sea apple in there that wil nuke the tank is natural?

Do you really think having overcrowded quarters and fighting fish is natural?

Just because these are living creatures doesn't mean you can apply the laws and ways of the open reef in the ocean here. You're creating quite the opoosite of that in fact with to many fish and a potential nuke!
 
Yes, Kewl, I do...

I also stick in live jumper cables once in a while to simulate lightning and run around it banging trash cans together to simulate thunder. Every now and then, whether it needs it or not, I'll drop a watermelon in there just to see what will happen and if it doesn't create enough shock value, I bring in that guy who holds the hot dog eating record and have him taunt them with a mustard and sardine covered bratwurst.

(I'm JOKING! I don't have the guy cover the bratwurst in mustard! Bah-dum-BUMP!)

(Thank you! I'll be on every night at 8 and 10)

:D
 
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