A year of random mini-crashes..cant figure it out, about to give up.

[enderg60]

Over the past year I have slowly lost about 80% of my corals and a few fish and I cant for the life of me figure out whats going on.

To start, my system is a 300g DD tank with a 100g fuge, two 40g frag tanks and a 50g sump. I run BRS 3 part dosing on dosing pumps, GFO and Carbon. I have a very large custom skimmer, and a 57w UV running at 300gph. I run 3x400w halides and 4x39w t5's on the display and a 400w halide on the frag tanks. Everything is run on a AC3. I use RODI water(TDS never over 4) and WAS using seachem salinity salt but now use IO. my rockwork is all dry lace rock and black pond foam.

The system has been up and running for 3 years now, and for the first 2 years never had any problem at all, corals and fish all grew and were happy.

throughout all of this my levels have been
Temp -72 in winter, 76 in fall/spring, 80-82 summer
Salinity - 1.023-1.026
PH - 7.9-8.2
Alk - 2.5-4 mg/L
Calc - 380-500
Mag - 1200-1500
Nitrite - 0
Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - 1-5
Phosphate - 0.05-0.01

This all started about a year ago when I introduced a powder blue tang which started an ich outbreak in my tank causing me to loose about 40 fish. After that event has subsided(still have some ich on a few fish but they are all eating and otherwise fine) I noticed my Pink birdsnest(had always been brown) started to turn pink, and my plating monties started to lighten up. I thought all was well and went on with life.

A few weeks later I noticed the corals were still bleaching and getting worse and I was getting alot more brown algea on the sand. Checking my levels I didnt see anything wrong but slightly elevated nitrates and did a few large water changes.

Over the next 4-6 weeks I noticed that all my plating and branching monties died, all my birdsnests died, a few other SPS all STNed and some of my LPS began to recede. levels checked out couldnt figure it out, so I changed my bulbs and did some large water changes.

Everything was fine for a few months, then it started again. Same symptoms but now corals that were previously uneffected started showing the same signs of STN. I tried dippin, water changes but nothing. A friend recommend I check my sulphur denitrator. It was pretty nasty so I took it off line and cleaned it. Seeing no change I put it back online and eventually it stopped and all was fine again.

The third time it happened I switched salt from salinity to IO and did a 955 water change followed by a 20% change. And though that was the problem as all was well for a while.

I am now at the end of my 4th small crash. I have lost open brains, scolys, plate corals, acans, blastos, plating monti, monti digi, encrusting monti, stags, slimers, torts, validas, and clams to this problem.

I am at a total loss here. All my levels check out(and were double checked using different kits from different people) Bulbs were changed again just in case, 60% water changes, new RO filters and membrane and all.

Right now the death seems to have stopped again and my tank is covered in red cyano and brown algea. I recently tested my strontium levels and saw they were 0 so I am now dosing strontium but the amounts needed are amazing.

I do not know what else to do here, I cant buy new coral and my tank looks like crap. Whatever coral is left has crappy color.

Please help!

 

[dawgface]

Following

 

[hnguyen]

Have you checked or any pest that may be causing your coral deaths?

 

[gmpolan]

following as well

 

[landon]

300 gallons is a large tank to be affected by this situation but since it is an established tank that has been up for a few years, could it be nitrate deposits in the sand being released?

 

[misu]

Not blaming in on the BRS stuff but I noticed things were going downhill for me too a while ago so I stopped all dosing and I'm only doing 10% weekly water changes. Obviously things are not growing as much but I'm not losing any more coral, worth a shot. Red slime had to be treated with chemiclean.

 

[enderg60]

Yes I have checked and dipped most of the effected corals and see zero signs of pests or disease.

Oddly enough misu you are the second person to point at the BRS dosing. I have been getting quite a lot of calc deposits on my pumps and the line to my carbon/GFO reactor **** near closed off with calc deposits.

I just havent heard back as to if/how this causes the problem and how dosing via calc reactor would be different.

 

[dawgface]

<span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: Verdana">Talk with Arcoholic, I think he had a similar issue that he correlated as best he could to his sulphur denitrator. I don't believe he ever brought that thing back online. Sure does seem an awful lot of people are having horror stories lately with the common denominator being the denitrator.</span></span>

 

[raz0945]

How long have you had the pond foam in your tank? How long have people been using it in salt water? Could some of the chemicals in our reef salt be strong enough to break it down or change the chemical make up of the foam? I'm interested in your input because I was thinking about making rock and using the pond foam. I'm sorry about the loss of your fish and corals! Holley

 

[seth the wine guy]

Did you switch to IO over fears the Salinity was a possible culprit?

 

[enderg60]

Yeah I talked with acroholic about the denitrator the last time and cleaned it out and took it offline for a while when I didnt see any change I put it back on.

Had the pond foam in there since it started.

and yes I switched to IO because I thought the salinity was the problem.

 

[misu]

I'm still on salinity, don't think it's the salt's fault

 

[ralph atl]

you have too many changes to figure out anything but random guessing...so...

What I would do:

1. Salt to Seachem Reef or Salinity (I.O. needs too much dosing.....)

2. Change water once a week...a lot....20% min

3. Change Carbon & GFO out weekly or more for the next couple of months

4. Think...Think about dosing vodka in the future (or other carbon)

5. Change some sand here and there...a little each day, week, whatever...

 

[enderg60]

Misu, how much BRS 2 part were you dosing? Based on another person saying the same thing on RC Im cutting my dosing in half this week and then again next week. If all goes well after that Ill setup a calc reactor.

Im changing 100g every two weeks right now as well as the daily 2g it does auto right now.

Ill try changing the carbon and GFO out weekly.

I will not carbon dose my tank again, last time I got bacteria colonies all over the tank and it looked like total crap.

Sand was totally removed and replaced during all this, partly because I though it might be the issue partly to change the color.

Im also going to do a chemiclean treatment followed by another 95% water change when its done.

Im just at a loss here, Every time I think I found the problem it just happens again.

 

[acroholic]

EnderG60;696756 wrote: Yeah I talked with acroholic about the denitrator the last time and cleaned it out and took it offline for a while when I didnt see any change I put it back on.

Had the pond foam in there since it started.

and yes I switched to IO because I thought the salinity was the problem.

My tank issues seem to have stabilized after I cleaned out my denitrator, but it seems Daniel may have something else going on. I did place mine back online, but I will clean it every 9 months or so so I don't get a repeat of last time.

 

[misu]

I was at around 50 ml/day for both Calcium and Alk. Mag was added manually, I can check the programming on the controller for exact numbers but everything tested fine over several months. My system is about 150 gal in total mixed reef.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

EnderG60;696784 wrote: Misu, how much BRS 2 part were you dosing? Based on another person saying the same thing on RC Im cutting my dosing in half this week and then again next week. If all goes well after that Ill setup a calc reactor.

Im changing 100g every two weeks right now as well as the daily 2g it does auto right now.

Ill try changing the carbon and GFO out weekly.

I will not carbon dose my tank again, last time I got bacteria colonies all over the tank and it looked like total crap.

Sand was totally removed and replaced during all this, partly because I though it might be the issue partly to change the color.

Im also going to do a chemiclean treatment followed by another 95% water change when its done.

Im just at a loss here, Every time I think I found the problem it just happens again.

A few things here stick out in my mind- 1) The recurrence. It makes me believe that perhaps your adsorption media is losing effectiveness at these periods, and causing the issues. This, Im wondering, might be tied in the with black foam? I have used this stuff A LOT (not on aquariums though). On ponds, roofing, etc. And I know it degrades quickly in weather, and namely, UV exposure. I wonder if it is degrading in the tank, and leaching something. And fresh carbon, etc removes it, until the adsorption exhausts, and the nyou see problems. Just spitballing, though.

Acroholic;696806 wrote: My tank issues seem to have stabilized after I cleaned out my denitrator, but it seems Daniel may have something else going on. I did place mine back online, but I will clean it every 9 months or so so I don't get a repeat of last time.

Dave, how did you pinpoint the issue down to a dirty denitrator? What effects/parameters were you seeing? I have never heard of dirty denitrators causing issue before, so I was just curious. Thanks.

 

[enderg60]

misu;696921 wrote: I was at around 50 ml/day for both Calcium and Alk. Mag was added manually, I can check the programming on the controller for exact numbers but everything tested fine over several months. My system is about 150 gal in total mixed reef.

see youre about the same as me then. My total system is about 420g of water and I was dosing as of last night 110ml/day of alk and 240ml/day of calc. BRS says 1-2ml/day per gallon is recommended so technically Im still way under that, but im close to your levels.

How much are you dosing now and are your numbers staying stable?

I cut my dosing in half last night.

jmaneyapanda;696943 wrote: A few things here stick out in my mind- 1) The recurrence. It makes me believe that perhaps your adsorption media is losing effectiveness at these periods, and causing the issues. This, Im wondering, might be tied in the with black foam? I have used this stuff A LOT (not on aquariums though). On ponds, roofing, etc. And I know it degrades quickly in weather, and namely, UV exposure. I wonder if it is degrading in the tank, and leaching something. And fresh carbon, etc removes it, until the adsorption exhausts, and the nyou see problems. Just spitballing, though.

This could be, but I really dont think its the foam. I spent 6 months researching foams. The black pond foam is made to be exposed to both water in fish systems and the sun(UV). I got it specifically because many other reefers stated it did not break down under the lights/UV like great stuff did.

It still has the same consistency and color as when it was first done(aside from some coraline growing on it)

 

[jmaneyapanda]

EnderG60;696961 wrote: see youre about the same as me then. My total system is about 420g of water and I was dosing as of last night 110ml/day of alk and 240ml/day of calc. BRS says 1-2ml/day per gallon is recommended so technically Im still way under that, but im close to your levels.

How much are you dosing now and are your numbers staying stable?

I cut my dosing in half last night.



This could be, but I really dont think its the foam. I spent 6 months researching foams. The black pond foam is made to be exposed to both water in fish systems and the sun(UV). I got it specifically because many other reefers stated it did not break down under the lights/UV like great stuff did.

It still has the same consistency and color as when it was first done(aside from some coraline growing on it)

That very well may be true. I havent used the black stuff. But....I cant imagine its made out of anything different that the yellow stuff. The only difference where I see it used in ponds in that it isnt typical used submerged like we use it. Its in waterfalls, etc, to open air. So, any toxicity would theoretcially be released to the free air, or, if introduced to the water, would only be susceptible to fish, not corals (in FW ponds). Again, I have no back up to this, Im just guessing. I personally would think that it would very potentially emit something, especially after time to degrade, but that is just a gut feeling.

 

[acroholic]

jmaneyapanda;696943 wrote: Dave, how did you pinpoint the issue down to a dirty denitrator? What effects/parameters were you seeing? I have never heard of dirty denitrators causing issue before, so I was just curious. Thanks.

MY SPS/LPS were STNing at the same time, which was very odd, IMO, because if I ever had issues, it would usually affect one type coral, like SPS but not LPS. I will say that zoanthids/palys seemed unaffeted during this period.

The denitrator being the issue is a best guess scenario. I had tried most other things like Daniel did: new salt, no substrate, new substrate, frequent GFO/carbon changeouts. The denitrator was out of sight, out of mind in a corner of the area behind the tanks, and hadn't been serviced in well over a year.

Some research on the subject brought this article by Randy Holmes Farley up, including in it a table of H2S toxicity levels for various aquatic (FW and marine) organisms. No corals are given in this table, closest thing being a clam and some SW fish species.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/rhf/#10">http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/rhf/#10</a>

So my best guess, given that all other things I tried yielded no results, the issue stopping after I cleaned out the denitrator, and the article showing that H2S is toxic to marine organisms, is what makes me think it was my sulfur denitrator causing the issues. Again, just based on circumstantial evidence.