About to call it quits

[donniea1800]

So I am extremely frustrated. It started last year. Had a mixed reef full of SPS and LPS corals. All of a sudden everything started dying. First to go were the birdsnests. They all bleached and RTN seemingly overnight. One by one all sps died. Then the LPS started receeding from the base up until all tissue gone. I lost everything except the GSP has been growing like weeds. Mushrooms multiply and the fish and anemones were all fine. Never could pin point what happened. So for the last year the tank has been on autopilot and I had not been adding anything. So last week I decided to get back into it and get some coral back in. I put in a frogspawn, a couple candy cane, and three nice hammers, and a RBTA. The anemone is doing great. But again I see the tissue on all the new lps receeding up from the bases. The same thing is happening that happened last year. What the hell is wrong with my tank? I am about to call it quits and get rid of it all. I thought maybe copper but it can't be that. Crabs, snails, GSP, mushrooms, and anemones are fine. No algae issues.

Tank: 55 gallons
Temp 78
Salinity 1.025
Alk 8.4
Cal 450
No3 30 (yes high)
Po4 0.01 (low)

 

[Adam]

Sorry to hear about your problems. Have you thought about getting an icp test? It might reveal something you haven't looked at. I'd recommend the ATI one because it's the most comprehensive and they do your RO water too.

 

[donniea1800]

Sorry to hear about your problems. Have you thought about getting an icp test? It might reveal something you haven't looked at. I'd recommend the ATI one because it's the most comprehensive and they do your RO water too.

Yeah I have thought about doing one. I guess it's worth ba shot to see if there is something I am just not seeing. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[donniea1800]

Here are some pics.

 

[FutureInterest]

After having spiked my nitrates... I do know that the first things to die from the nitrates were the birdsnests and stylos. Then followed by certain lps. Zoas and nems were mostly not effected. Most acros survived but they took some hits. There are many ways to get those nitrates down and that'd be the first thing I'd look at changing up.

 

[kodock]

What is your lighting, lighting schedule, and intensity? Could you get access to a PAR meter and see what your levels are? The light meter app may suffice.

I 2nd an ICP test.

I had a bleaching scare, when I increased the blues on my ocean revives by 5 on the blue channel. Another scare, when a power outage tripped my ORs and did a hard reset on the settings.. I would check the lighting.

Other reasons: flow, metals/chemicals leaching into the tank, bad salt/ro, overdosing any supplements

 

[donniea1800]

I have a reefbreeder photon the 1st version. It's about 3 years old. I run it ramping up for 9 hours. The peak is 84 blue and 30 white which is for about 2 hours at the peak. I thought about that but I have not changed these settings. Do LEDs go bad? Don't have a par meter. The only thing I can think can changed before the crash a year ago was that I used a new salt for a water change. It was shortly after that things went bad. It was Brightwell Neo Marine. Never could prove that was the problem. I did use that salt again about a month ago when I ran out of my normal salt. Maybe something in that salt? But why would anemones be unaffected? I guess I will just try the water test to see if there is anything in the water. And yes try to get those nitrates down.

 

[donniea1800]

Oh and I forgot to mention the tank is about 10 years old so very muture. It had been running great for several years with same lighting before everything died. Can an led fixture go bad? Thought about going back to my old 4 bulb T5. Not sure that is the issue or not. Old tank syndrome?

 

[FutureInterest]

"Old tank syndrome" is just a label that people attach to mysterious phosphates leaching into their tank from old rock and sand. Doesn't look like you are having algae issues or phosphate issues.

I agree with the ICP test. It will certainly help you identify what is going on and nitrate reduction is as simple as increasing your water change schedule or dosing vodka/vinegar regularly.

 

[dball711]

Lots of good advice here, ICP test for sure. Just curious, how oftten (if at all) do you clean the sand/gravel bed. I have seen (first hand) a mature tank have issues and each case had a sand bed that was the only variable I couldn’t solve for.

I doubt the occasional water change with a different salt mix was to blame.

Pretty sure the lighting wouldn’t be the cause of the issue either.

Nitrates are high for a reef and and should be brought down as others have suggested. Again not sure that’s the sole cause of what’s going on.

For the quick/sudden almost over night deterioration of the birds nests it would suggest something toxic to the corals was introduced. This is why I suggested maybe something from the sand/gravel bed. Maybe doing the water change with the new salt stirred up something in the sand bed? After having similar issues Myself, I removed all my sand bed/substrait and have been bare bottom for several years. Have not seen any similar issues since. Not saying bare bottom is the way to go but for me it works.

Best of luck and please keep us posted as this progresses, you’re not alone as all of us run across setbacks or tank crashes...for me it’s not the end but rather a new beginning being a little wiser with the experience under my belt.

 

[Mom2Many]

This might not have anything to do with what you are going thru but just my experiance...Corals like SPS do like things very stable. So a large water change using another salt mix might be enough to stress them out if something were much higher in the new mix. If I use a new salt mix I slowly change my mix over a few weeks of water changes. Also, in my 10 gallon, I can not use Red Sea Coral Pro Salt full strength as I had the same issues. I have to cut it with Instant Ocean to not have that issue. 2/3 RSCP and 1/3 IO.

Also, I have very small tanks and I am the auto top off . I am the doseing machine. I measure and do everything to my tanks every day... That being said, I can tell you that EVERY time, over the years, I used higher than normal amounts of phosguard or any phosphate remover (with in days) my birds and stylos would start to RTN and my LPS did not like it either and show signs of tissue regression. Scientificly, I dont know why this happens..It has happened EVERY time I tried to raise my phophate removers to try to push for more color from my birdsnests.

ICP test is very good advice.

You have had this tank up and running a long time. Pray you get this figured out. Dont get discouraged, there is an answer, I am sure you will find it.

 

[Adam]

@FutureInterest 's issue with NO3 was after it was extremely high, much, much higher than 30. While I too thing 30 is a bit high I don't think it explains what you're seeing if it really is at 30. Are any of the test kits expired?

Can you give us more details about your setup? Filtration, do you use carbon or GFO, ect...

If you do have a sand bed, there's a very large thread on R2R that discusses a full rinsing of the sand.
I keep sand in my tank as well. But my system is only 3yrs old. I also have several different kinds of sand cleaning & stirring members in my CUC. Sifting Stars, Conches, Tiger cucumber, Tiger shrimp, various other burrowing snails... hell with the amount of sand my clowns move around add them to the stirrers too. lol

With the ICP test. I do think ATI is still the best for your situation. It just takes 10-16 days to get your results back. I rinse and fill the tubes up so there is no air in them at all.

 

[FutureInterest]

LOL yes. Higher than 30 for sure.

My nitrate kit was bad and I dose nitrates so I caused my own issue. Perhaps get your parameters verified by someone else locally or a lfs. If I had simply done that I wouldn't have had to send in an ICP test to Germany that took 2 weeks and delayed my corrective actions.

 

[dball711]

Just to add, one thing you can do right now is water changes. No need to wait, if there is sometime toxic it will help. It will also help to reduce the nitrates.

"The Solution to Pollution is Dilution"

 

[reefingaround]

have you calibrated your refractometer? just throwing out idea and see what sticks.

 

[snowmansnow]

So sorry you’re having such a hard time. Don’t quit unless you have to. It takes more than one year to master this junk


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[snowmansnow]

Another thought.... your posted number is fine for alk, but MOST issues with corals end up being traced back to alk .... sure that number is correct? Again... a thought


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[anthony]

I had the same problem. Never did figure out the problem but I took three measures that corrected it. First o completely removed my sump and washed it out in the tub and replaced it. (There were a lot of crap in the bottom that I believe was rotting and being recycled back into the tank.) 2nd I bought some cheato and a new refugium light and grew the cheato until I had a 4 inch thick mat of or in my refugium. Then I replaced all the filters in my RODI and started new. Most importantly I quit using Reef Crystal's salt and switched to live aquaria salt. Mixes clean with none of that brown gunk I got with R.C. that worked for me.. but I also dose 4 part with triton.

 

[donniea1800]

So I use the Hannah checker for Alk. Refractometer has been calibrated. I will check again. Sand gets vacuumed each week during water changes. I have never had a sump. Simple 55 gallon with hob filter and hob reef octopus skimmer. For the first several years barely detectable nitrates. I use phosguard for phosphate when needed. I know the perception of phosguard but never had an issue with it. I hate the mess of GFO. Weekly 10% water changes. Was using Kent salt but now use fritz salt. Hard to find Kent these days. It still confused me how the GSP, mushrooms, inverts, fish, and anemones are unaffected by whatever it is. Going to order an ICP test.

 

[donniea1800]

Guess the plan right now is water changes for nitrate and wait for water test results. I hope there is something in the water test so at least I know what it is and can figure out how to fix it.