Adding Controler

[liverock27]

I have been doing a lot of research and reading alot of posts on people's reviews on different controlers because I am going to buy one w/my tax return. I have it narrowed down to the AC Jr. and the RK2. I was wondering if some of you with more experience can help me with my purchase? The tank it is going on for right now is a 14gallon Biocube, but will be moved to my larger system if and more like when I set it up. I am also in the market for a calcium reactor w/CO2, but it may not be purchased right away, but I see both work w/the reactor. I like the fact that the RK2 can be expanded for more equipment, but didn't see anywhere if the AC Jr. also has this upgrade. I am mainly interested in monitoring and controlling temp and pH, so if one is "better" at these features I would be more likely to purchase it. Ease of programming doesn't bother me and I would like one that can link with my computer to give me readouts. I can't think of any other information I can add to help with suggestions, but any help would be great because this is the first controler I have ever purchased. Thanks.

 

[mojo]

Minor correction- the RK2 cannot be expanded. I believe the AC Jr can be.

It'll partly come down to personal preference. I don't like the Aquacontroller line, but I do like RK's. I'd say to use one of both and make your own determination. RK2 is more of a multi-function timer that's basic yet meets 90% of your needs. AC Jr. is a bit more complex.

Don't completely discount "ease of programming." I program for a living, and have worked on everything from assembly on microchips to large enterprise systems, and there are controllers out there that *I* have a hard time figuring out. I'm not saying I'm a rocket scientist, but geez- you'd think it'd be easy for people that didn't have a technical background...

 

[FutureInterest]

I own both so I guess I'm kinda qualified to give you my earnest opinion. I would go with the RKII if I could do it all over again. It looks much nicer as the control unit is compact and designed to be displayed. Also, I don't care for how all the plugs go into the control unit of the ACjr. On the RKII everything plugs into the "DC8" which makes everything look so much cleaner.

They do basically the same things and for your nanocube setup either unit would be more than sufficient. I feel they're both easy to use once you are accustomed to their menu navigation. Finally, I had a lot of issues with my ACJr. My unit might of just been a lemon, but I went through multiple temp probes and the unit itself began to malfunction after only 4 months.

 

[mojo]

Jin- I think you're the first person that I've talked to that has also used both and also prefers the RK2!

 

[kwl1763]

Honest opinon as one who has upgraded a few times go for an AC3 or equiv.

3 big reasons:

1) It's only a couple hundred dollars more and has tons more capabiilty

2) Even though it's overkill on your tank now what happens if you upgrade?

3) The higher end tend to hold their value better so even if you do sell you'll get most of your money back.

I originally had an AC2 on a 135G tank, then I started travelling and needed the remote features of the 3 and upgraded. I know many many others who have had to upgrade so while it seems extreme paying that much for your nano I would!

If you're going with one of the two you mentioned I would personally do the RK2 but it's like asking what lighting or bulb is best!

 

[FutureInterest]

mojo;134133 wrote: Jin- I think you're the first person that I've talked to that has also used both and also prefers the RK2!

Hah we agree on something . Its hard not to side with the RK2 when the ACjr kept trying to crash my tank! I got lucky a few times and happened to be nearby when the controller went nuts. Notwithstanding the near tragedies, I do like the RKII better anyways.

 

[skriz]

Like chris said, the rk2 is not expandable. I haven't used the ac jr, but the rk2 is very very easy to use and will do everything you need it to do for your tank and even larger.

as for holding value; it's relative. say you spend $600 on a controller and you can sell it used for $500. you got most of your money back and "lost" $100. If you sell your rk2 for $170 used, you still only "lost" $100, but technically didn't get most of your money back.

for what you need, i'd go with an rk2.

 

[liverock27]

Thanks guys for the quick help. I have been leaning toward the RK2 if not because I thought it was a better looking controler. I am not really in the market for the AC3 or the RK Elite (i think that is what it is called) that will be coming out. Like I said this is my first controler and the two main functions I want are for ph and temp control/monitoring, so both of these units do that for me, but thanks for the input on the larger one.
Also thanks for the input on easy of use Mojo.
Now to change the subject do any of yall recommend a good calcium reactor/CO2 to go alonging w/the RK2?

 

[schwaggs]

Also keep in mind that both AC jr. and RK2 have a single pH port. With only one port, you will only be able to monitor the pH in either the tank or the CA reactor, not both. NEITHER the AC jr. or RK2 can be expanded monitor both. If you want a single controller to monitor and control the pH in both your tank and CA reactor, you need either the RK pro (future) or the ACIII and a PX1000. This dual pH port and ethernet capability was my main reasons for upgrading to a ACIII.

I have never owned the RK but have run an Aquacontroller for years. If you don't want multiple pH ports and don't want ethernet, I would go with the RK2 based on what I have read and heard from other reefers. However, it is quite cool and useful to have an ethernet connected controller. Don't underestimate the value of a controller than can email you when something goes wrong and you can log on to from the office to check up and control your tank.

 

[harleyguy]

I bought an AC3 then upgraded to an AC3 pro. I'm not the norn, the AC3 has plenty of conectivity and expandability for just about everyone. Also adding the AquaSurf (to control Tunze streams) and the LunerSim (to simulate Luner phase with LEDs) are really cool options.

 

[cameron]

RK2 in my experience is buggier. Don't be the first person on a new platform for DA and don't be the first to try out a new firmware. RK2 while prettier and easier to use on the front end fades quickly after you've owned it a couple months. As soon as you want to do something different, you will be wishing you had an IF statement. I sure was. Also the ACJr can run the the LunarSim and the AquaSurf modules and can run 12 channels instead of 8 like the RK2 (another thing you will probably be wishing for soon enough). The reason I would steer away from the RK2 is that DA will never expand that unit. If you buy the RK2 today, that is all it will ever be. By comparison if Neptune comes out with a dosing pump, it will likely work with the ACJr. The ACJr also comes with a switch port so if you want to have something controlled from a single switch such as a float switch or water alarm, you can. Real Dataloging on the ACJr so you don't have to have your computer tied to the machine 24/7 to see what was happening with the unit, customized feed channel capability which means ANY channels can be put on a customized feed timer and temp compensated pH.

I used to own both and I am very familiar with the capabilities of both and the longer I own a controller the more I want it to do. The RK2 looks slick, but the power and expandablility sits squarely in the ACJr corner. If all you will ever do is turn on the lights, run a heater and such then the RK2 will serve you well. If however you want to expand beyond those capabilities or you want a unit that can be expanded in the future, RK2 is not it.

I would ask those who are RK2 users and supporters what controller they are using today and if they switched from an ACJr to an RK2... they are probably using something more powerful than an RK2 and probably didn't switch and keep the RK2 is my guess.

 

[liverock27]

Thanks for all the comments on the AC units Schwaggs, Harleyguy, and Cameron. Still up in the air about which unit to buy, but after reading on the Neptune site about all the additional features this morning I am leaning toward it now. I am hoping in the near future to be running a calcium reactor and a chiller also on the unti, so having the extra oulets is nice and I really like the lunerSim. Thanks again for all the help on this choice. I know it is going to be like buying a new computer, no mater what I buy today tomorrow there will be something better.
Quick question, does the ACJR have the capability of running a second pH probe or is that only w/the AC3 or pro?

 

[xyzpdq0121]

I have an RKII and I like it. It works well for what I need it to do but, yes, it is time for me to upgrade on my main tank. Cameron and others are right, if you want it to control temp (heater and fans) or if you want it to control lights, The RKII works like a champ. If You want ANYTHING more then that and you would be looking to upgrade. RKII comes with a "wavemaker" function and it sucks. You can only select ON:Off times with the wavemaker. For example. The pump has to be on for 60 seconds and off for 60 seconds. I can not have it on for 60 seconds and off for 15. The two values have to be the same. Would it have been that hard for DA to make this an option, no. Can they ever update it in the future, No... and that is what bothers me. I also wish I would rename channels on the RKII display. I never remember what is on channel 4 until I need to shut off something and I forget that is not the return pump but the halides... irks me every time.

All and all, if looks are not a issue, I would go with the ACjr.. To me it is like dating a beauty queen vs a Yale grad. The RKII is pretty but just not a lot of substance there but it makes great eye candy on the side of my tank. The ACjr might not be the most beautiful thing in the world but it has brains and I can carry on a conversation with it. Just depends what kind of guy you are. In my younger days it was all about beauty, as I get older in this hobby, I need a bit more substance!

 

[gwhiz]

Xyzpdq0121;134556 wrote: The ACjr might not be the most beautiful thing in the world but it has brains and I can carry on a conversation with it.

You really need to get out more.....:sad:

 

[FutureInterest]

When its time to upgrade my controller... I will go with a RK elite. Heck I love toys so I might just buy it for the hell of it. Anyways, we're talking just about RKII and ACjr here. As such, its not really a debate of style over substance for me. Although, we can all agree the RKII wins that hands down . The RKII gives you what you need as an average user in terms of functionality. Does the ACjr have further options? Sure, but do you need them? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the person. I think though that the average user will find no significant difference in functionality from one unit to the next.

For example, I think I'm a slightly advanced aquarist yet for me they have the exact same functionality. I plan to use the AC jr on my nano but I am using the RKII on my reef. They're both just glorified ph/temp probes with built in timers, which is all that most of us need.

I'm obviously a lil biased since my experience with the AC unit was that bad. Not only did the unit consistently fail on me, but the customer service guy I talked to blamed me for its failures. For example, they said that the temp probe must've been pinched for it to fail. I've got 2 spotless, unblemished probes that work for **** neither of which were covered by their "warranty" and had to come out of my pocket and I paid for shipping both times. Keep in mind that the Ac jr and the ACIII have completely different and incompatible temp probes. The Ac jr gets the low grade probe which is obviously second rate. Do a quick search on reefcentral you'll find that the rate of failure of these temp probes is unacceptable. Heck, slayer77 lost almost half his tank to a temp failure of his ACIII so I wouldn't trust that unit either. Also, my AC unit also decided to turn lights on and off at random times on its own... which was wonderful. It failed as a temp regulator, it failed as a light timer, and their customer service was unacceptable.

 

[harleyguy]

So what you’re saying is you loved the Neptune stuff and would recommend them to all your friends???

 

[schwaggs]

LiveRock27;134547 wrote: Quick question, does the ACJR have the capability of running a second pH probe or is that only w/the AC3 or pro?

NO, the AC jr. cannot be upgraded to handle 2 pH probes and neither the RK2 or the AC jr can do ORP either.

The AC III has 3 ports for probes. One can only be used for temperature, the other 2 can be used for either pH or ORP. So for example, you could setup the ACIII with 2 pH probes, one for the tank and one for the CA reactor. And, if you want to monitor ORP as well, you can add the pX1000 and gain a temp port and 2 more pH or ORP ports that can be used on the same tank or for a second tank. Unfortunatly, the ACIII comes at a $300+ premium over the AC jr but the expansion capability and networkability makes it worth the extra $$$ imo...

 

[schwaggs]

FutureInterest;134597 wrote: Keep in mind that the Ac jr and the ACIII have completely different and incompatible temp probes. The Ac jr gets the low grade probe which is obviously second rate.

Actually, I think the AC Jr. and ACIII and Px1000 use the same probe... which doesn't give me a warm-fuzzy...

 

[cameron]

You can use just about any temp probe in the AC not just their probe so long as it uses the telephone jack connector. I have been running dual temp probes without problems so far on my AC3 and at least with the AC line you can code for a whacky temp probe (if the temp falls below say 60 or above say 90 you can do all sorts of cool things to prevent a melt down unlike the RK2).

I won't get into support woes as everyone mileage differs, but corner me sometime and ask about my DA support experience. If the RK2 unit fails (and it did on me a couple times), prepare to wait... and wait.... and wait for a unit to come in for replacement. Neptune usually has units on hand to ship out unlike DA (at least the last time I dealt with them... I think the run a just in time inventory system) IMO, Neptune support is WAY better than DA.

Also something to point out is that the brains of the RK is in the DC right next to the power source. My T5 ballasts kept flipping my unit off due to noise from the line and you can (and likely will) suffer strange probe readings if you run the computer connection onto an unregulated power supply which is pretty common. If the DC breaks on an RK out of warranty, prepare to shell out some dough for a new one as you will be paying for the DC and the brains of the RK rather than just the DC.

The RK2 is pretty and the interface is nice'n'easy which is what drew me in, but after a couple months I was ready for more. Granted I am not the typical reefer, but I just like the idea of a unit that can be upgraded and a company that does not rush product out the door to keep sales up. Neptune is very deliberate when releasing products. New products and firmwares rarely have defects. The same is certainly not ture of DA.

Lastly I don't want to let the cat out of the bag too much, but programming the AC line if you have a computer is about to get a whole lot easier. If you can point and click, you will be able to program it.

 

[liverock27]

Well, I have decided in the end to go w/the AC JR, but now I am confused because there seems to be several different setups and I can't tell what all is the difference and which one I should get.
1. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~NS1153.html"><span style="color: #003399;">Neptune Systems AquaController Jr. (Backlight) w/ Temperature Probe</span></a>
2. [IMG]http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~NS1155.html"><span style="color: #003399;">Neptune Systems AquaController Jr with Serial Port + Temperature Probe</span></a>[IMG]http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~NS1153.html"></a>
3. [IMG]http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~NS1163.html"><span style="color: #003399;">Neptune AquaController Jr with Backlit Display + Temperature Probe + Direct Connect 8</span></a>
4. [IMG]http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~NS1165.html"><span style="color: #003399;">Neptune Systems AquaController Jr with Serial Port + Temperature Probe + DC8</span></a>
I am wanting to do all the basic monitoring and controlling of pH and temp, but would like to be able to expand the system when I move it onto a larger tank. I also want to run the computer programs. Thanks again for the help.