Advice - Help regarding Nitrate Reduction

[bhbbhb]

I am sure that this topic has come up in the past. But here goes. I have seen my nitrates increase from under 4PPM to over 10 PPM. I have been trying to keep them down via water changes and by not over feeding my fish. However, the fish just look so excited when I come around that I figure - "why not - they do look a little hungry".
A few months ago - I did purchase a Reef Octopus - Internal Bio Pellet Reactor. After a few weeks I started having to deal with Cyano outbreak and attributed it to the bio pellets and I removed it.

Now I am rethinking what approach I can use to reduce the Nitrates. Perhaps trying the Bio Pellets again or maybe using Red Sea - No3o4-x Nitrate & Phosphate Reducer. The later would require daily dosing.

I am interested in input and suggestions from experienced folks. My tank is 175 Gallons (Including the 25 Gallon sump). I have about 14 fish and some coral. Mostly Zoas - with some LPS.
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[cbj25]

What is your water change schedule?

 

[bhbbhb]

I try to do about 20-30% water change every 21 days. But over the last couple of months I might have extended the time frame by a few days.

 

[heathlindner25]

bhbbhb;919658 wrote: I try to do about 20-30% water change every 21 days. But over the last couple of months I might have extended the time frame by a few days.

you might have answered your own question.. you have to export more than you import: more water changes

 

[jbdreefs]

I have seen similar problems recently in established tanks that were seldomly vacuumed. The trate factory was the gunk built up under the sand.

 

[heathlindner25]

I have seen similar problems recently in established tanks that were seldomly vacuumed. The trate factory was the gunk built up under the
+1 .
I vacuum my sand religiously

 

[ringo®]

Are you running a skimmer?

 

[jennm]

The solution to pollution is dilution.

Small water changes, done more frequently, changes more net water over time.

Imagine your nitrates were bags of trash. Every week your livestock generates, let us say, 3 bags of trash. You're only taking taking 4 bags out, every 3 weeks. The fish are making 9 bags of trash. See the problem? The garbage out must meet or exceed the garbage in.

Yes to vacuuming the substrate, yes to skimming - you can do a reactor or whatnot if you wish, but at the end of the day, the answer to the problem is that you aren't exporting enough waste, so it's accumulating.

In the short term, we can overlook an unemptied waste basket here and there, but if that continues, the house looks like something off "Hoarders".

In mature tanks, this is frequently referred to as "Old Tank Syndrome". In my opinion, that's a misnomer. It's really, "Lazy Hobbyist Syndrome" (Or "Busy Hobbyist Syndrome")... call it what you like, it ends up with the same cause, and same result.

The good news is, with nitrate at 10, if you catch it now, with more frequent water changes, you should be able to get it back under control in a week or two. If you don't get ahead of it now though, it will take longer to get the upper hand again. Nitrates don't spike suddenly, they accumulate over time, so it can take some time to get back on track.

Water change, water change

Jenn

 

[cbj25]

JennM;919701 wrote: The solution to pollution is dilution.

Small water changes, done more frequently, changes more net water over time.

Imagine your nitrates were bags of trash. Every week your livestock generates, let us say, 3 bags of trash. You're only taking taking 4 bags out, every 3 weeks. The fish are making 9 bags of trash. See the problem? The garbage out must meet or exceed the garbage in.

Yes to vacuuming the substrate, yes to skimming - you can do a reactor or whatnot if you wish, but at the end of the day, the answer to the problem is that you aren't exporting enough waste, so it's accumulating.

In the short term, we can overlook an unemptied waste basket here and there, but if that continues, the house looks like something off "Hoarders".

In mature tanks, this is frequently referred to as "Old Tank Syndrome". In my opinion, that's a misnomer. It's really, "Lazy Hobbyist Syndrome" (Or "Busy Hobbyist Syndrome")... call it what you like, it ends up with the same cause, and same result.

The good news is, with nitrate at 10, if you catch it now, with more frequent water changes, you should be able to get it back under control in a week or two. If you don't get ahead of it now though, it will take longer to get the upper hand again. Nitrates don't spike suddenly, they accumulate over time, so it can take some time to get back on track.

Water change, water change

Jenn

Awesome analogy, very we'll put!


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[twhaddon]

Yes. Good analogy. I will begin to do that myself. I usually do about 25% every two weeks. Maybe I will go to 10% every week and try that. I have this same issue.

I also have a dual reactor for GFI/carbon, uv sterilizer, 150 gallon Skimmer (tanks is 120) and built my own 40 gallon sump.

 

[jennm]

I forget how I came up with that analogy but I've been using it for a while.

Since nitrate is invisible it's difficult to conceptualize.

Make it visual - ie bags of trash - it makes a lot more sense.

Jenn

 

[bhbbhb]

I appreciate the input. Yes I am running a skimmer. Currently running a Reef Octopus 3000 Internal.

 

[ringo®]

bhbbhb;919830 wrote: I appreciate the input. Yes I am running a skimmer. Currently running a Reef Octopus 3000 Internal.

Just wanted to eliminate the obvious first.

 

[bhbbhb]

So are any of you running bio pellets or using the Red Sea Nitrate Reducing dosing?

 

[mcphock]

Jenn's analogy is correct, but though water changes are effective, they're time and resource intensive.

I've never messed with bio-pellets, but I'm a huge fan of carbon dosing. (I'm well aware it's the same principle). If you've got a beefy skimmer, you've got nothing to lose by trying. Yes, it will require a daily task if you don't have a dosing pump, but why not let your skimmer do the waste removal instead of you?

For what its worth, I carbon dose 4ml of vodka daily in my 120 in addition to doing a 20 gallon water change every 10 days. By no means am I saying water changes aren't important

 

[jennm]

Water changes are a part of the hobby. Yes there are other methods of nutrient export, but part of the purpose of water changes is to replenish some of the trace elements and such, which are depleted by livestock. So water changes have an important place in the big picture of things.

Jenn

 

[darrrenjmartin]

Im using seachem denitrate in a little fishes reactor using a small crappy fountain pump with perfect results. You have to get the nitrate down for the reactor to take. It took months at 5-10ppm for the nitrate to cycle. I kept them low with 10 percent weekly WC. I have 0ppm nitrates always. I don't do water changes because of nitrates. I do it just because that's what we are supposed to do. I never had this happen in 20 some years. I had a nitrate coil work years back.

 

[tonymission]

JennM -- that post was very useful thanks. Took over a tank months ago, got excited, bought a bunch of stuff and turned out my nitrates were through the roof and reef/fish weren't too happy. Needs a complete overhaul.

 

[jennm]

Darren - yes, Denitrate is effective with slow flow, and yes, it does take some time, because it is biological and not mechanical or chemical. Sounds like you're on the right track with it - well done!

Tony, welcome to ARC Glad the information is of help to you. If I can be of any more help, just let me know!

Jenn