If money were no object and I had to do it over again, I would try the GHL system- it looks amazing and all the videos on it on YouTube really make me wish I had gone this way first. The Ion director on top of the KH director seem like a great option.
Apex alternatives
- Thread starter NanCrab
- Start date
I'm currently running 3 solutions here. A reef-pi, a full Apex 2016 & a GHL setup.
Reef-pi - is really only managing temperature and turning a light on/off. It's cheap, can be easy or not easy depending on your skills, patience and enjoyment of constantly tinkering with stuff. You obviously are not at the mercy of a cloud service which is both very good and very bad.
Apex - currently running 2 tanks. No real issues with it other than the fact that they have their ecosystem so tied down it annoys me to the point that I've already gotten rid of over half my Neptune stuff. Their salinity probes are junk, they know it and they stick to the "it's the user that is a problem" model of refusing to provide proper support or fix the problem. Programming the Apex is probably the easiest out of the 3 I'm familiar with. Their cloud service is stable and works well for what it does. The last straw for me was when Terrence and another employee flat out lied to a bunch of people on their facebook page. I screen captured a thread from R2R - put it in their thread and asked them if could explain it all again since their own stories didn't line up. The whole post suddenly disappeared.
My other problem with apex is their sensors - they are absolute crap - at least the optical level sensors. I have about 10 sitting here that are all no longer working. I find out they no longer work when I have an ATO problem and happen to notice it on my own. If they would simply choose to acknowledge an issue and do something to address it moving forward I would be ok. Claiming ignorance is intolerable to me and I won't give them any money because of it.
GHL - overall a little more expensive. I've had a few challenges with hardware and initially had trouble getting support. Until I learned how to work with them. If they think for even a hot second that you are complaining - they will ghost you and refuse to provide any support. Once you get past that - their support is wonderful. So far - sensors and probes seem better than Neptune. I know probes are all interchangeable etc - but I can say that once you get the salinity probe calibrated properly - it stays rock solid for months at a time. I like the fact they use cat 5 cable for communication. I love the KH Director. Their dosing solutions blow APEX DOS out of the water Programming is a little more challenging. Some things you can only do while directly connected with a PC - yep - a Windows based PC only. Calibrating probes is a royal PITA. You have to push buttons on the front of the controller. Try doing that when your controller is downstairs and the probes are upstairs. Yep - about 14 trips up & down the stairs (although I certainly can use the exercise). Their app and cloud - sucks. It's slow and can be flakey at times. I hate it - but I do tolerate it.
If anyone has specific questions about any of the 3 controllers above I'd be happy to answer them.
Ultimately - I'll be 100% GHL - and more than likely will end up with the ION director once it's out.
Reef-pi - is really only managing temperature and turning a light on/off. It's cheap, can be easy or not easy depending on your skills, patience and enjoyment of constantly tinkering with stuff. You obviously are not at the mercy of a cloud service which is both very good and very bad.
Apex - currently running 2 tanks. No real issues with it other than the fact that they have their ecosystem so tied down it annoys me to the point that I've already gotten rid of over half my Neptune stuff. Their salinity probes are junk, they know it and they stick to the "it's the user that is a problem" model of refusing to provide proper support or fix the problem. Programming the Apex is probably the easiest out of the 3 I'm familiar with. Their cloud service is stable and works well for what it does. The last straw for me was when Terrence and another employee flat out lied to a bunch of people on their facebook page. I screen captured a thread from R2R - put it in their thread and asked them if could explain it all again since their own stories didn't line up. The whole post suddenly disappeared.
My other problem with apex is their sensors - they are absolute crap - at least the optical level sensors. I have about 10 sitting here that are all no longer working. I find out they no longer work when I have an ATO problem and happen to notice it on my own. If they would simply choose to acknowledge an issue and do something to address it moving forward I would be ok. Claiming ignorance is intolerable to me and I won't give them any money because of it.
GHL - overall a little more expensive. I've had a few challenges with hardware and initially had trouble getting support. Until I learned how to work with them. If they think for even a hot second that you are complaining - they will ghost you and refuse to provide any support. Once you get past that - their support is wonderful. So far - sensors and probes seem better than Neptune. I know probes are all interchangeable etc - but I can say that once you get the salinity probe calibrated properly - it stays rock solid for months at a time. I like the fact they use cat 5 cable for communication. I love the KH Director. Their dosing solutions blow APEX DOS out of the water Programming is a little more challenging. Some things you can only do while directly connected with a PC - yep - a Windows based PC only. Calibrating probes is a royal PITA. You have to push buttons on the front of the controller. Try doing that when your controller is downstairs and the probes are upstairs. Yep - about 14 trips up & down the stairs (although I certainly can use the exercise). Their app and cloud - sucks. It's slow and can be flakey at times. I hate it - but I do tolerate it.
If anyone has specific questions about any of the 3 controllers above I'd be happy to answer them.
Ultimately - I'll be 100% GHL - and more than likely will end up with the ION director once it's out.
Have you looked at the Ultimate or Mega that I posted. It is a lot of money but OTOH we are at the beginning of our journey and already have quite an investment that I would like to protect. We may want to upgrade at some point and this system I believe would move right up with us.
I know a lot of people on here love Apex but my very short experience with it I wasn’t impressed and to make it capable of doing what this GHL does right out of the box would cost substantially more. I can’t afford it right now but I’m planning on getting it eventually. Really need to check that lottery ticket I left in the glovebox! Lol maybe I won something.
That is the base I started with on my GHL journey late last summer.
I currently have a Profilux 4, expansion box 2, 3 power bars, 2 Maxi dosers, KH Director and 10 level sensors. I have added modules to allow for more level sensors and an additional temp probe. 2 conductivity probes (salinity), 3 ph probes, 3 temp probes, 1 ORP.
Don't assume GHL never has issues - they do and it can be hard to work with them sometimes.
Right now I have 2 temp probes that were purchased brand new directly from them. They claim all temp probes are pre-calibrated. What they can't explain to me is why one temp port always shows exactly 3 degrees lower than the other ports. Not the probes - the ports them selves. I can move the 2 brand new probes from port to port and the temps stay identical on the port.
I originally had purchased a second KH Director - and these things are not cheap - upwards of $900. Imagine my surprise when I discovered you can not hook up 2 KH directors to a single controller. You can run 2, but one has to be run with a stand alone doser.
While that doesn't seem all that crazy - I mean how many people are going to run 2 Alk monitors / maintaining systems - right? My problem came when I asked them where their platform capabilities and limitations were documented so that I could avoid a $900 mistake in the future. They immediately assumed I was complaining and they simply refused to communicate or acknowledge my question. Which in turn did annoy me to the point that I was going to just sell it all and stick with reef-pi.
Instead - I waited a few days and started communicating with them in a "hey, you guys are so wonderful, and I'm probably stupid etc etc blah blah, BUT, I'm having this silly little problem and I'm wondering if you might be able to help me out" type of communicating and suddenly their support changed to what I would expect. I came to this conclusion after a hand full of GHL users on R2R sent me DMs describing their own personal experiences and how best to work with GHL.
I'll say again too - their cloud service sucks - its clunky and slow and disconnects a fair amount. Doesn't hurt anything other than my lack of patience.
About those cloud services these companies offer. Remember they are not charging you for them - they are "free" for their customers use. However - the systems and software that run all that cloud stuff is not free. It costs those companies a fair bit every month to keep all that up and running. You are paying for that up front with the cost of the equipment. I also believe that is part of the reason these companies feel it's OK for some of their products to be disposable - like the optical sensors from neptune I mentioned earlier. If those keep breaking, people keep buying, that's a revenue stream they can predict and count on to help out with the operational costs of the "free" online services they are providing.
