ARB BoD Meeting Minutes - April 2007

[rhomer]

I think all of this is getting handled very well, and I appreciate the time that you guys put into this. I can tell that major decisions are getting the proper attention and these issues are reviewed thoroughly and sincerly. But through these discussions I have noticed a theme that I would hope we could subdue somewhat. I keep hearing the phrase "come to the BOD" meeting and you will have the opportuinity to voice your opionion, and I also keep hearing from the majority of members that sorry we can't make it because ... Then the board responds, "oh well tough for you".

There appears to be a culture forming that is that BOD doesnt care if none of the club can ever attend the BOD meetings (I don't think that this is the case, but at times it appears this way). Perhaps we should look at this in a way to try and accomidate the club's best interest regarding bylaws and such instead of claiming that if members don't show up to meetings therefore they don't care. This is simply not the case.

Maybe we can announce a BOD meeting in a forum with a request for new business 2 weeks prior to the meeting with discussions available. This would give the club a decent amount of time to fully flush out any ideas or changes to by laws prior to the BOD meeting and voting. This would give the BOD a little stronger leg to stand on post voting, and would give the general club members more flexibility to contribute to club business.

Again I do appreciate the work, but I think that we can remove a lot of the BOD frustration, as well as club member frustration by using the tools at hand.

Rob

 

[siege]

mwitten wrote: Oh, and I ran the BBS (remember those?)

I do! I ran two locally, Courts of Chaos (4 lines, 1990 to 1994), and was one of three SysOps on Midnight Escape (circa 1993 to 1996, 32 lines at final shutdown). Sorry this is off-topic, but I can't resist a blast form the past like that one... I usually just get blank-stares from people when I say "BBS"

mojo;37726 wrote: The sponsor stores currently do not pay the club for sponsorship. We've discussed this in the past, and feel that we'd lose almost all the sponsor stores if that were the case. What we get in return, however, is the discount that we pass on to all the members. ...

... We won't go bankrupt over losing sponsor stores, but we have to protect the value of the club and the relationship of the club with the stores as much as possible. This move was done with that primarly that in mind.

As a new member (who has been a member of other very similar clubs over the years), I am glad to see good evidence that the club's board is actively attempting to look out for the best interests of the members (I've seen too many overworked and under-appreciated BOD's just kind of throw their hands in the air and give up). I'm too new to the club feel I have a particularly valid or insightful comment to present - I'm sure I'll weigh (at length) as I become more familiar with the club, its members and the issues it faces - I just wanted to thank you all for what you do.

 

[mojo]

Just as a quick followup- I don't think I represented the UAW analogy quite as well as I could have - apologies to anyone that may be part of that organization. The point of the analogy is that the ARC doesn't want to be seen by sponsors as just a union of people pressuring them for benefits - we want to maintain a healthy relationship that everyone benefits from.

Also- there's been talk in the past (before me) about whether sponsorship indicates a "good" or "bad" store, and the decision was that the ARC can't act as a moral entity- if a fish store has a valid business license, and acts within the law, then we generally accept them. If a store sells fish that are captured with cyanide, for example, we as a board may not agree, but we don't want to be the arbitrators of right and wrong. Make sense?

 

[sshindell]

I personally really like the civility of this thread, and like the good ideas that are brought up (even ones I don't agree with). It is pretty refreshing and I think that it speaks volumes to the overall maturity of our members. People here seem to strive to be part of finding the solution rather than feeling like they have done a great service by just complaining and identifying the problem as they see it.

I always hated separate BoD meetings, because it was one more commitment for the BoD, who are usually overcommitted in the rest of their life. We tried to have the BoD meetings every month an hour before the regular ARC meetings when I was president - it worked out well except that the frequency of the meetings meant often there was nothing to discuss, but it also meant we were focused on a much more efficient meeting with a set time limit. Anything with substantial diivergent opinions was turfed to a smaller group to come back the next month with recommendations. That worked pretty well. The only drawback was that the people setting up the regular ARC meeting could not participate in the last 15-25 minutes of the discussion.

Anyway, it is something to consider as a possibility.

As far as sponsor stores, as Chris said, it is a symbiotic relationship that done well is helpful to both. I think it is a win-win. We are not trying to keep the ARC afloat by sponsor discounts, nor do they depend solely on us, but they DO get advertizing for the cost of the discount, and we DO get a number of top notch stores in the Atlanta area that are pretty responsive to our needs, and we are both helped by educating newbies to the hobby, making them aware of quality issues, and keeping them in longer (and buying more stuff). Works well I think.

 

[tsciarini]

rhomer;37735 wrote: I keep hearing the phrase "come to the BOD" meeting and you will have the opportunity to voice your opinion, and I also keep hearing from the majority of members that sorry we can't make it because ... Then the board responds, "oh well tough for you".

I'm going to use this past meeting as my example. There were quite a few members interested in attending and I made it a point to post that we were going to have it. Not a single person contacted me for an address. Yet, as soon as it passed I got overflowed with schedule complaints. If I don't know your coming, how am I supposed to accommodate your schedule? (not directed at any particular person)

rhomer;37735 wrote:
There appears to be a culture forming that is that BOD doesn't care if none of the club can ever attend the BOD meetings (I don't think that this is the case, but at times it appears this way).

That is surely NOT the case. I have spent HOURS outside of Board meetings talking with members on the same topics that were discussed at the Board meeting. Honestly, I think it sucks that I'm spending this extra time to go over it 4-5-6 times when if they had just come to the BoD meeting, they would have all the answers and I would have 10hours more free time.

rhomer;37735 wrote: Maybe we can announce a BOD meeting in a forum with a request for new business 2 weeks prior to the meeting with discussions available. This would give the club a decent amount of time to fully flush out any ideas or changes to by laws prior to the BOD meeting and voting. This would give the BOD a little stronger leg to stand on post voting, and would give the general club members more flexibility to contribute to club business.

We typically do... but as you're already aware, the past meeting was short notice due to the topics at hand. The Constitution and Bylaws are posted publicly and always open to discussion from the members.

rhomer;37735 wrote: Again I do appreciate the work, but I think that we can remove a lot of the BOD frustration, as well as club member frustration by using the tools at hand.

I've probably spent about 15-20 hours on club business / forums / planning per week for the past two weeks... thats on top of being out of town now and last week... also on top of having a full time job (40-48hrs/wk) and trying to have a life at the same time? I'm still getting PMs and phone calls because I'm not replying to a question fast enough (within 12-24 hours). I typically get about 20+ PMs a week. If I can answer it in 1 minute or less, I'll reply almost instantly. Otherwise, I keep it aside until I have the time to sit down and give it some thought. Not only does running the club and talking about it take time.... but typing it up afterward takes even longer.
Anything that you think can help get some of that off of my back... <u>I</em></u> would appreciate! The problem that I'm having right now is that we've got a long list of people with expectations and requests, but not a single one offering support or assistance.

 

[tsciarini]

I'm tired.

 

[siege]

Well, I'm the newb here, and my work hours are a bit weird, but I'll be happy to help if I can.

 

[tsciarini]

BTW, please excuse my previous two posts... I'm just whining and complaining. I didn't even read it before posting...

 

[rhomer]

tsciarini;37791 wrote: I'm going to use this past meeting as my example. There were quite a few members interested in attending and I made it a point to post that we were going to have it. Not a single person contacted me for an address. Yet, as soon as it passed I got overflowed with schedule complaints. If I don't know your coming, how am I supposed to accommodate your schedule? (not directed at any particular person)



That is surely NOT the case. I have spent HOURS outside of Board meetings talking with members on the same topics that were discussed at the Board meeting. Honestly, I think it sucks that I'm spending this extra time to go over it 4-5-6 times when if they had just come to the BoD meeting, they would have all the answers and I would have 10hours more free time.



We typically do... but as you're already aware, the past meeting was short notice due to the topics at hand. The Constitution and Bylaws are posted publicly and always open to discussion from the members.


I've probably spent about 15-20 hours on club business / forums / planning per week for the past two weeks... thats on top of being out of town now and last week... also on top of having a full time job (40-48hrs/wk) and trying to have a life at the same time? I'm still getting PMs and phone calls because I'm not replying to a question fast enough (within 12-24 hours). I typically get about 20+ PMs a week. If I can answer it in 1 minute or less, I'll reply almost instantly. Otherwise, I keep it aside until I have the time to sit down and give it some thought. Not only does running the club and talking about it take time.... but typing it up afterward takes even longer.
Anything that you think can help get some of that off of my back... <u>I</em></u> would appreciate! The problem that I'm having right now is that we've got a long list of people with expectations and requests, but not a single one offering support or assistance.

Tony, I think you compeletely mistook my point. What I was getting at was trying to find a way to eleviate some of what your talking about. I certainly wasn't attacking how much time you spend working on preparation. What I was trying to do is present some discussion to help reduce the amount of work you are running into post meetings by continually explaining and responding to PM's over and over. I was simply trying to propose some ideas to make your job easier and more satisfying.

Rob

 

[cgill311]

I had a quick note regarding ARC-sponsor relationships:

It seems lately several of our sponsors have begun posting their weekly sale items in the forums. While I do like to see what new items the stores recieve, I doubt the rest of the sponsors appreciate this. I personally don't think it is fair to our sponsors if a few continuously post their inventory every time a shipment arrives while the others are under the impression they should not do this. It also skirts the stipulations of being a sponsor:

[ARC provides sponsor members] The opportunity to e-mail a one (1) page announcement (sale or special offer) to all ARC members through our email newsletter twice per calendar year. (BOD approval required but still more free advertising!) </em>

I see two solutions to be fair to all sponsors:
1) Let every sponsor post at will
2) Amend the by-lays to include:

[ARC provides sponsor members] The opportunity to post threads on the ARC forums or e-mail a one (1) page announcement (sale or special offer) to all ARC members through our email newsletter twice per calendar year. (BOD approval required but still more free advertising!) </em>

 

[mojo]

We actively encourage sponsors to use our forums and market to our members. The by-laws and the forum rules do somewhat conflict, and should probably be updated, although it's no small task to update the by-laws.

My personal take is that sponsors are a business. If a business (any business, for that matter) doesn't want to change, adapt, use the free resources available to it for direct advertising, then let them suffer because of that. We allow all sponsors the same freedom, which is why we don't actively enforce the by-laws. They are all encouraged to post specials in their own forum. If they choose not to use that resource, then it's their decision.

I say let capitalism run it's course.

 

[cgill311]

mojo;37900 wrote: We actively encourage sponsors to use our forums and market to our members. The by-laws and the forum rules do somewhat conflict, and should probably be updated, although it's no small task to update the by-laws.

My personal take is that sponsors are a business. If a business (any business, for that matter) doesn't want to change, adapt, use the free resources available to it for direct advertising, then let them suffer because of that. We allow all sponsors the same freedom, which is why we don't actively enforce the by-laws. They are all encouraged to post specials in their own forum. If they choose not to use that resource, then it's their decision.

I say let capitalism run it's course.

That's fine with me, but I'm guessing some of the sponsors are under the impression ARC doesn't want them to directly advertise on the forums. That's the view held by at least one store that I know of.

If the BOD has some form of communication with the sponsors, maybe they could drop a reminder that all sponsors are welcome to post shipments and sales on the forums.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

mojo;37766 wrote:

Also- there's been talk in the past (before me) about whether sponsorship indicates a "good" or "bad" store, and the decision was that the ARC can't act as a moral entity- if a fish store has a valid business license, and acts within the law, then we generally accept them. If a store sells fish that are captured with cyanide, for example, we as a board may not agree, but we don't want to be the arbitrators of right and wrong. Make sense?

See I do not agree here. I thought I read somewhere that there was suppost to be approval for club sponsors. Am I wrong?!? I also though that I read somewhere that that could./should include a visit by a BoD member. At any rate, I do not think that anyone and everyone should be approved as a sponsor. I do not think that it is bad to say that we have certin standards from what we believe a sponsor should be. Our name is tied into them in some way shape or form. It reflect on our imange to some stand point that Under The Wave (Sorry best example that I can think of) was a sponsor. Look at the BBB, you have to be a member of the BBB. If you are a member, you are held to a higher standard. When people are looking for a new place, some look and check to see if they are a member of the BBB. Being a member (soponsor) of the BBB means something. I do not see why it should be any different for the ARC. I do think that sponsors gain a huge anount of business and revenue from the club and give nothing back other then a discount to members (and some raffle prizes). I firmly believe that the club is here for the members FIRST before anyone else. I think that if the sponsors are crazy enough to try to hold the BoD by the balls and threaten to pull out because they do not like some of the rules and standards that are being applied to them, then se la vie. I am just a bit ill at the whining of LFS because people "don't support us!" I walked in to a LFS two weeks ago and overheard the owners griping to customers that too many people order drygoods online and it is costing them too much business and "how dare" they come in, look at product, just to go buy it online. My business is not a right, it is a honor to have it. I base where I spend my hard earned money or: price, selection, quality and service. If I can get three out of those for things online, then guess where I am going to go?!? Do not complain to me, call your wholesaler and tell them that if they want to keep your business, they have to help you lower your overhead (price you pay) so that you can compete with the online vendors. But also don't pass it off to me like "poor me" because this is america free economy and you knew that going in.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

tsciarini;37792 wrote: I'm tired.

You think?!?

PM me if you ever need anything... I got your back!

I do think Rob is right though. I think the BoD is here to vote on behalf of the members. Or atleast that is what I would like to think that they are there for. More or less, the congress of this club. I can not make it to Washington DC to attend every meeting but you better believe I expect my congressman to listen and vote the way that is in my best intrest. Now I KNOW this rarely, if ever happens, but that is the way it was designed. I think the floor should be open to member voting and discussion BEFORE the BoD meet. I think the members who care should have a week or two BEFORE the BoD meeting to discuss topics and talk to the BoD. I think the BoD SHOULD take that into consideration before voting. I think that is the way most any club of this size should be run.

 

[siege]

tsciarini;37893 wrote: BTW, please excuse my previous two posts... I'm just whining and complaining. I didn't even read it before posting...

No way. Having been involved at high-level in efforts like this in the past, I know how it can be... 20, 30, even 40+ PM's a day, explaining the same thing to different people over and over again, people expecting jusitfication that everything didn't go just so,,, My most recent example was as part of the "Leadership" in a nearly 200 person "gaming clan", where people are paying not $30 a year, but at minimum $10/month, and in the case of the officers, $20, usually, and this isn't the game itself, just a "group" of gamers. As you can imagine, interaction was high, since paying monthly means you're gonna play to get your money's worth and be involved.

I know what it's like to dread logging in to the forums at the end of a long work day knowing that if you do, you'll wind up spending most of your evening dealing with PM's and forum posts and stuff you'd really rather not be worrying about because it's supposed to be your hobby, not</em> your job - you'd think leadership felt like it had more benefits sometimes, but when you're actually there, those benefits just don't seem tangible, and fun shouldn't be work.

So anyway, I've been there several times over, and ya gotta whine sometimes; even if it's just a little to work the frustration out, and let others know that that maybe they should give the dumb stuff a rest for a little while.

My offer still stands - if I can help you in any way, just ask.

 

[showtime305]

tsciarini;37791 wrote: I'm going to use this past meeting as my example. There were quite a few members interested in attending and I made it a point to post that we were going to have it. Not a single person contacted me for an address. Yet, as soon as it passed I got overflowed with schedule complaints. If I don't know your coming, how am I supposed to accommodate your schedule? (not directed at any particular person)

I'm sure you are expecting a large group of members to attend the next meeting after seeing the responses you are getting.

 

[tsciarini]

Thanks for the support guys... Rob, I don't think I took your post the wrong way; I think I more just got off on a rant and needed to vent some. I'm honored to know that we've got such great members there to help out when needed. Thanks again for being there everyone!