Auto Water Changer-Lab Grade and Inexpensive

[seth the wine guy]

Ok, so I'm curious about your approach here. Why do you feel the need for a pump that exactly measures how much water is removed? I think you only need a pump/system that is able to exactly measure how much SW to put back in. You have a controller right? I think you could do a auto WC system with a maxjet and Tunze osmolator. It would be $230 total if bought BNIB. (I got my combo for $105)

Have your controller programed to turn on your maxjet connected to a hose for x time to drain tank water. Tell your controller to shut off power to your ATO for x time while this is happening. You also program your controller to power up the Tunze that is in your premixed SW. We all know how precise the Tunze is. It will fill your sump to its proper water level.

Instead of using a maxjet or other pump to drain water, I have another vehicle to drain water. My skimmer has an auto wash down that comes on every 8 hours per my APEX. My Tunze ATO is told to shut off for 15 minutes when this is triggered. The APEX then powers on a second Tunze Osmolator with premixed salt water. No fuss, no muss. Don't have to worry about pump calibrations etc. I really like your ingenuity but think you over engineered it in this case.

 

[acroholic]

Seth The Wine Guy;842323 wrote: Ok, so I'm curious about your approach here. Why do you feel the need for a pump that exactly measures how much water is removed? I think you only need a pump/system that is able to exactly measure how much SW to put back in. You have a controller right? I think you could do a auto WC system with a maxjet and Tunze osmolator. It would be $230 total if bought BNIB. (I got my combo for $105)

Have your controller programed to turn on your maxjet connected to a hose for x time to drain tank water. Tell your controller to shut off power to your ATO for x time while this is happening. You also program your controller to power up the Tunze that is in your premixed SW. We all know how precise the Tunze is. It will fill your sump to its proper water level.

Instead of using a maxjet or other pump to drain water, I have another vehicle to drain water. My skimmer has an auto wash down that comes on every 8 hours per my APEX. My Tunze ATO is told to shut off for 15 minutes when this is triggered. The APEX then powers on a second Tunze Osmolator with premixed salt water. No fuss, no muss. Don't have to worry about pump calibrations etc. I really like your ingenuity but think you over engineered it in this case.

I disagree.

The Tunze Osmolator is not intended as a high volume pump. It is not even intended to pump saltwater. It is designed to pump small volumes of fresh water for evaporative topoff. Tunze recommends using RODI desalinated water with it. Stated in the Owner's Manual.

A dual head pump setup would operate independent of any evaporation, since equal volume is removed/replaced at the same time. There really is not much simpler a setup. Change the tubing once a year. Water gets added and removed from the system in equal volumes. And I'm not sure where you get the need for pump calibrations? There are no pump calibrations, whatever they are, involved, unless you refer to the one time when you figure out how long it takes to remove/replace how much water you want it to. Maybe a 20 minute time requirement once.

And to be honest, I think your setup you described is more complicated than the one I am going to use. I just have a dual head pump that will come on once daily for a preset amount of time, adding and removing the same amount of water in that preset period of time. All I have to do is change two 7.5" pieces of tubing once a year.

You have multiple timers with delays, etc, using a $200+ Osmolator for a purpose it was not intended for. My equipment is engineered for 24/7 use in lab situations, costs the same as what you described, and is intended for the purpose I am using it for.

You yourself have stated: "I over size equipment to make up for inevitable human error." I don't see how quality equipment in an auto WC system is any different or less important than a UV or any other piece of reef equipment where a malfunction can affect our corals and fish.

Over-engineered?..........not likely.

 

[markl]

I can't wait to come see your system again Dave.

 

[lifestudent]

Our system uses these pumps and they're great. We've transferred water 30' away that had an elevation change of 6+' without any issues. The fact that the units have variable speeds has come in handy as well. They are also very dependable meaning that they should last for years like we're experiencing. The tubing that goes into the controller will wear out and can be found on ebay, however one usually has to buy it in quantities of 25' or more.

 

[silver surfer]

Control is simple. I just have my apex run the pump for me. The nice thing is since the unit has one motor for two pumps, there is less of a chance of crashing my system. If I wanted I could add float switches just in case.
When it comes to auto water changes, I believe in KISS. Sure I could do it with multiple pumps and floats but this is pretty darn simple.

Changing tubing is also simple on my unit. It's 3/8" tubing from homedepot. Just cut to length.

 

[seth the wine guy]

After reading your original post again I see you are only using one pump with two heads for this. I had read it earlier in the week and remembered you saying you had bought two pumps. So, it had me thinking you spent a total of ~ $400 for the WC system. Since your thread title had "inexpensive" I thought that was an important factor to you. Hence me bringing up the fact that an AWC system can be done for around $100 for someone with a controller. You may be right about the Tunze pump for use with salt water. We'll see how long it goes. I've used it to pump salt water for other reasons over the past couple years without an issue thus far.

The auto wash down on my skimmer prompted me to find a workable solution to adding SW back to the tank that was removed in that action. For ME, there was no better fit than the Tunze. Luckily, I don't need to pump water over long distances.

 

[acroholic]

Lifestudent;842347 wrote: Our system uses these pumps and they're great. We've transferred water 30' away that had an elevation change of 6+' without any issues. The fact that the units have variable speeds has come in handy as well. They are also very dependable meaning that they should last for years like we're experiencing. The tubing that goes into the controller will wear out and can be found on ebay, however one usually has to buy it in quantities of 25' or more.

The only thing I have noticed about buying the tubing on ebay, and I'm not sure if it is an issue, is that most of the Masterflex specific tubing I see for sale is at or past its use by date. Some Masterflex tubing is good for three years past the manufacturing date, and some is good for six years past. I use PharMed brand tubing, which is a long life type. I buy mine from US Plastics in 5 foot lengths, which lasts a long time as I only use 7.5" at a time every few months.

 

[lifestudent]

Acroholic;842415 wrote: The only thing I have noticed about buying the tubing on ebay, and I'm not sure if it is an issue, is that most of the Masterflex specific tubing I see for sale is at or past its use by date. Some Masterflex tubing is good for three years past the manufacturing date, and some is good for six years past. I use PharMed brand tubing, which is a long life type. I buy mine from US Plastics in 5 foot lengths, which lasts a long time as I only use 7.5" at a time every few months.

Good to know about US Plastics if I'm in a bind. So far, I'm very pleased with the Cole-Pamer ones.

 

[chrishet]

I've got my water tanks on order and a Stenner Dual Head Adjustable pump as well...Can't wait to get wet!

 

[ddaddy2420]

Acro,
What about using the Profilux dosing pump or the Vertex Doser as a water change system? Are these not meant for that type of setup or would these work just as good as the ones you mentioned?

Dale

 

[acroholic]

chrishet;842566 wrote: I've got my water tanks on order and a Stenner Dual Head Adjustable pump as well...Can't wait to get wet!

I should have my dual head pump on Thursday. Got my PharMed tubing today.

Edit:

ddaddy2420;842584 wrote: Acro,
What about using the Profilux dosing pump or the Vertex Doser as a water change system? Are these not meant for that type of setup or would these work just as good as the ones you mentioned?

Dale

You can do that, but the pumps are not made for that type of operation. The Libra doser is a lot more expensive than just getting a dedicated pump, and everything made by Profilux is expensive.

 

[joseayes]

^^ I agree, If I had the Vertex doser I will never be thinking on using for AWC as expensive it is and not designed for this purpose, even Profilux.

 

[ddaddy2420]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2144250&page=10">http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2144250&page=10</a>

The reason i ask is because this guy is using the profilux to do his auto water changes and seems to love it. If anything its worth a read just to see his setup. Amazing system he put together.

 

[silver surfer]

As I stated before the stenner pumps are on the loud side.

 

[acroholic]

ddaddy2420;842630 wrote: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2144250&page=10">http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2144250&page=10</a>

The reason i ask is because this guy is using the profilux to do his auto water changes and seems to love it. If anything its worth a read just to see his setup. Amazing system he put together.[/QUOTE]

It isn't a matter of right or wrong, really. If that is what he likes, then all power to him. I'm familiar with that thread, really nice system. He shelled out a minimum of $429-$519 for that Profilux doser. He will pay $50-$100 to replace any pump head that goes bad. I'm not familiar with Silver Surfer's Stenner pumps, so I cannot comment as to their long term quality. But I can tell you I'll probably be out of the hobby before any of the Masterflex pumps I have die, and my used dual head cost me $220 shipped. Original price on the drive unit is about $700, and each pump head retails for over $300.

To me, it is about buying the right piece of equipment for the job the first time. If I were dosing, I'd probably own a Profilux or Vertex dosing setup, as they are well suited to that purpose. I think the volume of the system you have also would play a factor. A 28 gallon AIO nano setup wouldn't require a lot of water exchanged in a Auto Water Changer type situation, so maybe a dosing pump or even a Tunze would be fine. My 465 gallon tank has about 450 net gallons of water, so I don't want to ask a dosing or ATO pump to pump 4-5 gallons of water a day at one time.

I have used Tunze Osmolators for years, and they are the best topoff units, IMO. But I remember from either one of my owner's manuals or I was told this by Roger Vitko (owns Tunze NA) that the pumps they have are not supposed to run for more than 6 minutes or so at any one time, which would rule it out for me as a WC pump.

Depending on the ID of the tubing I use with a Masterflex pump, I can move that much water in just a few minutes, which is one of the things I like about Masterflex pumps, they ensure dependable, [B]repeatable[/B] results, so every time I have it turn on the same volume of water will be exchanged, with little volume variance. And they can move that water over long distances if needed, and up to 25-29 feet in height.

The only area of aquarium equipment selection that I don't follow this rule in is lighting. I am a bit of a spendthrift with lighting, just because I like trying different ones.

 

[silver surfer]

The stenner pump I have is design to add chemicals to pools and water treatment plants. They have been in business for over 25 years. It's built really well and gets the job done. I also have a profulix doser but not sure if I would use it for awc. It's just not made for that application. Im sure you could do water changes but it would be like using a maxijet as a return pump. It would be working its a$$ off to keep up with the volume of water i would Iike to change in a day.

 

[acroholic]

I'm sure Stenners are great. If they are adding things like chlorine to pools, then they must be tough.