Back in the Hobby, Marcus' 220 Mixed Reef

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Well the copper band started to slow down eating but he was still eating some just not as aggressive as when first introduced; I had to go out of town for a 3 day weekend to visit family and when I came back, he had passed. I have heard that orange/klein butterfly fish were hardier and still aiptasia eaters but they would go after coral more than copper band. Since I already have a Moorish idol and angelfish, most of the coral on their menu I don't have anyway so I went ahead and ordered one of these to try. He wiped out my visible aiptasia within a few days, I'm sure I still have some in my tank that he cant get to, but I am not worried because between him and my filefish, they should keep the aiptasia in check. The kleins butterfly does nip at my pocillora, but I am OK with that if he continues to keep my aiptasia at bay.

Finally got my KH director online the end of last month, I calibrated the dosing heads with a dosing cup that measured in 5ml increments so my slow reagent dosing head wasn't very accurate but it was setup and working(about 1.5kh off from hanna). I ordered a gram scale that was accurate out to 0.01 units and re calibrated the heads, I am now normally 0.2-0.4kh higher on the KHD than my hanna tester. I was a little surprised though because most other people have the KHD read lower than hanna. I am not really chasing a specific number though, more concerned with consistency over time and a dosing pump/KHD is more consistent/accurate than me trying to hit the 10ml line on my hanna curvette the same every time.

I was testing my parameters last night and got to salinty so thought I would use my new salinity calibration fluid to check calibration my refractometer, I bought a VeeGee a few months back and it has been holding calibration rock solid. Uh Oh, the new calibration fluid is showing 40ppt instead of 35ppt. Still have some old calibration fluid, so cleaned the refractometer and put it on there, its reading 35ppt. So I don't know which one is right. I did put some RODI on it and the 0 lined up better when it was calibrated to 35ppt(old calibration fluid.) Pulled out my old swing arm, its showing my tank around 1.030sg. The last ICP test i had done in August showed salinity slightly higher than I expected, around 1ppt higher. So I am very confused but don't want to overreact so I am just going to leave things as they are until I can get some more calibration fluid to cross reference. Brightwell is what I had been using, ordered a Fritz and whatever amazons choice was, should be delivered tomorrow.

 

[Adam]

I plan to make my own standard the next time I need some.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.php

 

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I plan to make my own standard the next time I need some.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.php

I thought about the possibility of this last night and contemplated trying to make one but it was late and I was tired; with amazon's fast shipping, I decided to go to bed. I might try to make one this afternoon as another reference, but before I make any drastic changes, I want to compare to a few different standards.

 

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Well I made some DIY calibration solution, super easy if you have an accurate scale; I probably would have done it last night if I had known it was that easy. Bad news is the new brightwell calibration solution matches my DIY solution which means my tank water is around 1.029sg. I will add a little RO water to my AWC NSW container to lower the salinity today and then verify with the other 2 standards that arrive tomorrow. If it does match, which I think it will, I will add a little more RO water to my NSW container to slowly bring down the salinity to 1.025.

I am guessing some water evaporated from my first bottle of calibration solution causing the salinity to rise. Learn from my mistakes, check that old calibration solution and ensure the top is always well secured.

 

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I have made quite a few changes in the past month, below is a summary of what has changed:

• Lowered my salinity back to my desired range over the course of several weeks by using lower salinity water in my AWC system
• Added additional outlet on separate circuit so I can add more things without worrying about tripping the breaker
• Added 2 81W 470nm light bars
• Built a DIY nitrate reactor where I dose carbon, Nitrates are finally starting to drop
• Updated my ATO process to Kamoer ATO with 3 sensors instead of directly from RODI 2x per day, hoping to keep salinity more stable, also reduce TDS creep and make RODI media last longer
• Added GHL profilux 4, right now I am just using it to capture the probe readings, will add logic and use the power bar soon. I think for sure I will use it to control temp. Still debating what else I want to do with it.

 

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Been a few months since my last update so here are some significant changes to my system and future plans:

• Continued running nitrate reactor to lower nitrates from high 30s down to under 10ppm.
• I was told that carbon dosing/nitrate reactor wouldn't lower phosphates much but mine bottomed out so I totally removed the GFO(was running 200g rowaphos, replaced 1x per month), now they are running around 0.1 ppm
• Lowered ATS lighting time down to 12 hr/day, this was due to how well my nitrate reactor was working and since my phosphates were bottoming out. I have contemplated removing the ATS completely but I don't think I will.
• Removed my inkbird controller and now have Profilux control heaters/fan, much happier now as I was getting daily swings of around 2 degrees with inkbird, now I get a half degree daily swings. Also replaced all heaters as a precautionary measure.
• Bought a Tropic Marin high precision floating hydrometer as I find it easier and more precise than a refractometer(this is probably an unpopular opinion but it works for me)
• Wanted to add a few more fish since I removed some a few months ago when my nutrient levels increased. I feel the nutrient levels are at a good place now and I am safe to add more fish(can increase carbon dosing to nitrate reactor or increase ATS lighting schedule if needed). I really wanted an Achilles tang but they have been hard to find lately, I visited, called, or facebook messaged a few of the local sponsor stores but nobody had one in stock or offered to order one. So I started to look online, I have had success with Michaels NY Aquatics in the past and he put a few 3-4" Achilles tangs on his site a week before Black Friday. I emailed him and asked when his normal black friday sale would start and it started that day so I placed an order for the Achilles tang, DESJARDIN SAILFIN TANG, Foxface, and Copperband. I asked him to wait until the best shipping window, he held them for 3 weeks and then shipped them out the 3rd week in December. The fish arrived in great condition, the Achilles was probably 6-7" too. Very happy with the purchase, highly recommend this place.

• Future plans: I want to dose trace elements with better control, I have used Red Sea ABCD in the past but since they are mixed elements, I could be overdosing some and under dosing others. I have been looking at the reef moonshiners method or maybe a hybrid version of his "daily" elements along with ATI ICP recommendations. Reef moonshiners recommends running slightly elevated levels from natural sea water and I am not sure if I want to do that but I do want to dose the elements that I have seen to be rapidly depleting and those seem to be his "daily" elements. I am not to keen on dosing ~6 elements on a daily basis so I will investigate if it is feasible to incorporate some or all of the elements into my Auto Water Change NSW reservoir. It has been ~4 months since my last ICP so I will send one of this week and then decide how to proceed based on those results.

Here is a quick video the night I added my new fish, excuse the Christmas tree light glare and PVC elbows(added them to give new fish a place to hide)

https://imgur.com/a/pf0suZG

 

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I am interested in how other people are managing their trace elements, or if they are managing them at all besides water changes. Please let me know what you are doing.

I received my ICP back, nothing major out of whack. //lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/2963d85f2a15879f9b5e

I think I am going to start with the Reef Moonshiners method and see how it works out. I do not really like the idea of dosing daily so I am running an experiment to see if it is feasible to dose the daily elements to my AWC reservoir. I talked to the reef moonshiners guy, Randy Holmes Farley, Seachem support,.... I think that's all. And none of them really advised doing it this way, mainly because since most of the daily elements get consumed/oxidized/changing bio-availability so quickly so the concern is when it sits in my AWC reservoir it might not be providing much benefit towards the end of the container. I thought this would be pretty easy to test, send ICP(I am sending 2 ICPs-Triton and Fauna Marin) when I first add trace elements and then send ICP again when the container is almost empty. Then compare the results and hope they are not different by much. I will update my thread on R2R more frequently, but will provide an update here once the experiment is complete.

 

[Adam]

When I was dosing trace, I was alternating between Brightwell Koral Color & Rēplenish every other day at half the recommended rate. I also added Ferron (For the ATS) and dripped some Lugals occasionally. I backed up the dosing with quarterly ICP tests. This was also well after there were colonies in the system and lots of zoa's. You've got some mini colonies and I'm not sure with the levels on your ICP that you need to do much with trace right now. A little Lugals wouldn't hurt that or some Seachem Iodide. If the PO4 is down to 0.10 you're good there but try and make sure that stays the cap and not go higher.

As the coral starts taking off the nutrients will start dropping faster then you may think. The additional fish added to the load, so it will still be a struggle to keep them in line but when the sticks you have are double to triple their current size things will start changing. My trace method was easy to keep up with. The balance of nutrients was harder, but is more important in my mind.
Another thing to think about is easing up the Alk. You didn't state where it was currently but if it's at the ICP level slowly taking it up to 8.5-9 won't hurt. It will also lower the calcium some at the same time which isn't a bad thing. As long as the nutrients don't bottom out that is a safe Alk range.

 

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When I was dosing trace, I was alternating between Brightwell Koral Color & Rēplenish every other day at half the recommended rate. I also added Ferron (For the ATS) and dripped some Lugals occasionally. I backed up the dosing with quarterly ICP tests. This was also well after there were colonies in the system and lots of zoa's. You've got some mini colonies and I'm not sure with the levels on your ICP that you need to do much with trace right now. A little Lugals wouldn't hurt that or some Seachem Iodide. If the PO4 is down to 0.10 you're good there but try and make sure that stays the cap and not go higher.

As the coral starts taking off the nutrients will start dropping faster then you may think. The additional fish added to the load, so it will still be a struggle to keep them in line but when the sticks you have are double to triple their current size things will start changing. My trace method was easy to keep up with. The balance of nutrients was harder, but is more important in my mind.
Another thing to think about is easing up the Alk. You didn't state where it was currently but if it's at the ICP level slowly taking it up to 8.5-9 won't hurt. It will also lower the calcium some at the same time which isn't a bad thing. As long as the nutrients don't bottom out that is a safe Alk range.

Thanks Adam, I looked at Koral Color and replenish to see what the ingredients were, Koral color said it was proprietary but replenish lists them and they are similarities between what is in that and what I am dosing under the RM method. I believe if my experiment is not successful and I end up having to dose daily, I will move to a mixed blend like one of those, but I really hope my experiment works because I like the idea of only dosing what I need, I am fearful I will overdose one of the traces if I use of of the mixed blend products. For example, the replenish had barium salt in it, my barium levels are already 3x ATI's recommendation.

Po4 on ICP was a elevated over 0.10, just checked it was .21; I am trying to keep it under 0.2 for now since I have added those fish and am feeding on the heavier side to curb the aggression.

I looked back at KH director for date I sent ICP, it showed my alk was 8.3-8.4. Normally Hanna shows .2-.5 less than that. I try to keep alk between 8-9 on the KH director and it normally doesn't drift more the a point or 2 in a 24hr period.

 

[Adam]

Thanks Adam, I looked at Koral Color and replenish to see what the ingredients were, Koral color said it was proprietary but replenish lists them and they are similarities between what is in that and what I am dosing under the RM method. I believe if my experiment is not successful and I end up having to dose daily, I will move to a mixed blend like one of those, but I really hope my experiment works because I like the idea of only dosing what I need, I am fearful I will overdose one of the traces if I use of of the mixed blend products. For example, the replenish had barium salt in it, my barium levels are already 3x ATI's recommendation.

Po4 on ICP was a elevated over 0.10, just checked it was .21; I am trying to keep it under 0.2 for now since I have added those fish and am feeding on the heavier side to curb the aggression.

I looked back at KH director for date I sent ICP, it showed my alk was 8.3-8.4. Normally Hanna shows .2-.5 less than that. I try to keep alk between 8-9 on the KH director and it normally doesn't drift more the a point or 2 in a 24hr period.

Here's the last ICP test I did. This was after 18 months of doing the methods I was using. I was also heavily into the neglect stage prior to the move but I maintained the dosing but hadn't done a water change in about 2 months at that point.
lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/6776933ff6a489d3483e

 

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Here's the last ICP test I did. This was after 18 months of doing the methods I was using. I was also heavily into the neglect stage prior to the move but I maintained the dosing but hadn't done a water change in about 2 months at that point.
lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/6776933ff6a489d3483e

Thanks for sharing that, it is re-assuring to know that you are quite a bit higher than target on quite a few trace elements with no ill effects, maybe I am overthinking that it is really bad to be above target on some elements. Is there any element that you are aware of that I should be especially careful not to overdose?

I am interested to see how my levels will react once I am on this method for a few month.

 

[Adam]

Thanks for sharing that, it is re-assuring to know that you are quite a bit higher than target on quite a few trace elements with no ill effects, maybe I am overthinking that it is really bad to be above target on some elements. Is there any element that you are aware of that I should be especially careful not to overdose?

I am interested to see how my levels will react once I am on this method for a few month.

If you're going to go all in on the Moonshiners method I would be extremely careful with all the heavy elements. Anything below Molybdenum on ATI's minor element list. Other than Iron you can't readily test for them. These are the one's I would be the most careful with: Vanadium, Manganese, Chromium, Nickel & to a lesser extent, Rubidium. I mean we're talking doses of 1-2ml here. A mistake could kill more than the corals.

For reference, I also run my systems at 1.025sg/33.3ppt.
With a fuge or ATS that is producing, the Iron will get pulled out. I got mine a little high in there and stopped dosing it as often.

 

[Billldg]

I am interested in how other people are managing their trace elements, or if they are managing them at all besides water changes. Please let me know what you are doing.

I received my ICP back, nothing major out of whack. //lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/2963d85f2a15879f9b5e

I think I am going to start with the Reef Moonshiners method and see how it works out. I do not really like the idea of dosing daily so I am running an experiment to see if it is feasible to dose the daily elements to my AWC reservoir. I talked to the reef moonshiners guy, Randy Holmes Farley, Seachem support,.... I think that's all. And none of them really advised doing it this way, mainly because since most of the daily elements get consumed/oxidized/changing bio-availability so quickly so the concern is when it sits in my AWC reservoir it might not be providing much benefit towards the end of the container. I thought this would be pretty easy to test, send ICP(I am sending 2 ICPs-Triton and Fauna Marin) when I first add trace elements and then send ICP again when the container is almost empty. Then compare the results and hope they are not different by much. I will update my thread on R2R more frequently, but will provide an update here once the experiment is complete.

First and foremost, DO NOT CHASE TRACE ELEMENTS!!! Chasing trace elements, which are extremely limited in the ocean, can cause issue's down the road. I only dosed Iodine because my Triton test showed 0.00 Iodine over a few test. I also seen a few other results that said that I should raise it. The dosing amounts almost needed a scientist to dose it, LOL!!! The point is, unless, you see a constant in the results coming from someone other than us reefers, I will not worry about it. Most test kits have a margin of error greater than the actual findings. I fell, when we ALL, INCLUDING MYSELF, look at everything to help the corals out, we actually hurt them. If you need to, as I do, send in ISP test and go from there. I like, and no this is not a shot out, Triton simply because they tell you what to use to raise levels. The opposite to that, is that they only tell you their own products to use, but then again, they can only tell you what they have used to raise the same levels.

 

[Wmb0003]

First and foremost, DO NOT CHASE TRACE ELEMENTS!!! Chasing trace elements, which are extremely limited in the ocean, can cause issue's down the road. I only dosed Iodine because my Triton test showed 0.00 Iodine over a few test. I also seen a few other results that said that I should raise it. The dosing amounts almost needed a scientist to dose it, LOL!!! The point is, unless, you see a constant in the results coming from someone other than us reefers, I will not worry about it. Most test kits have a margin of error greater than the actual findings. I fell, when we ALL, INCLUDING MYSELF, look at everything to help the corals out, we actually hurt them. If you need to, as I do, send in ISP test and go from there. I like, and no this is not a shot out, Triton simply because they tell you what to use to raise levels. The opposite to that, is that they only tell you their own products to use, but then again, they can only tell you what they have used to raise the same levels.

Dang, don’t tell me that Bill. Haha

I think based on my past ICPs there are always the same elements that are popping up low. There are several trace programs out there but I think the moonshiners will be easiest to follow. I was looking at a total DIY with making your own solutions but 1 mis calculation could nuke your whole tank. I think as long as I follow the moonshiners method and don’t try to push the upper limits of his suggestions, I am hoping I should be good.

 

[Billldg]

Dang, don’t tell me that Bill. Haha

I think based on my past ICPs there are always the same elements that are popping up low. There are several trace programs out there but I think the moonshiners will be easiest to follow. I was looking at a total DIY with making your own solutions but 1 mis calculation could nuke your whole tank. I think as long as I follow the moonshiners method and don’t try to push the upper limits of his suggestions, I am hoping I should be good.

My question is, How low are we talking? I was showing 0.00 for 3 consistent test on Iodine. I see low readings in my Triton test, BUT, I ignore them as they are still somewhat within reason. Only when I see a constant extreme will I act.

Below is my last Triton test.

 

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My question is, How low are we talking? I was showing 0.00 for 3 consistent test on Iodine. I see low readings in my Triton test, BUT, I ignore them as they are still somewhat within reason. Only when I see a constant extreme will I act.

Below is my last Triton test.

The normal offenders are iodine, Molybdenum, manganese, vanadium, and zinc. My latest ICp was linked earlier but for some reason it didn’t hyperlink. I plan to send off ICPs at least once a month for the first 4 months while I start this method to ensure nothing gets out of whack.

 

[Adam]

I'm with Bill here. The only two I kinda targeted long term specifically was iodine and iron.
The main reason for quarterly ICPs was just to cover the broadcast dosing I was doing. I'm not even sure I would call your system fully mature yet, close but not quite.

Ask yourself this. What am I trying to accomplish? Then what is the easiest and most stable way to do it.

To start the Moonshiners method you've got to shell out a pretty decent amount of coin, plus $100's in extra ICP tests. I'd be spending that on the coral I want. But hey, that's just me.

 

[Billldg]

The normal offenders are iodine, Molybdenum, manganese, vanadium, and zinc. My latest ICP was linked earlier but for some reason it didn’t hyperlink. I plan to send off ICPs at least once a month for the first 4 months while I start this method to ensure nothing gets out of whack.

I looked at your results, and though it took me a bit to understand what ATI was saying, I really see nothing to chase. I am saying this honestly. Again, I only added Iodine because I had a 0.00 reading over a 3 reading, 5 month period. Never try to chase a few points or number to be exact. In truth, when the ocean comes into play, what is exact.

 

[Wmb0003]

I'm with Bill here. The only two I kinda targeted long term specifically was iodine and iron.
The main reason for quarterly ICPs was just to cover the broadcast dosing I was doing. I'm not even sure I would call your system fully mature yet, close but not quite.

Ask yourself this. What am I trying to accomplish? Then what is the easiest and most stable way to do it.

To start the Moonshiners method you've got to shell out a pretty decent amount of coin, plus $100's in extra ICP tests. I'd be spending that on the coral I want. But hey, that's just me.

I would say my main goal is to increase coral growth/colors, mainly in sps.

I could probably move away from leds to more t5 or halide to achieve this but I am more concerned currently with my water parameters. I am going the cheap route(io purple) with salt mixes so I think if I dialed in each of my elements, there could be some benefit.

I thought about going the cheaper route and buying seachem reef trace(it seemed to align pretty well with what my ICP showed was lacking) and dosing it alongside iodine daily but I decided on the moonshiners method due to being able to adjust each individual element. And I think I will personally enjoy this method more. I think the upfront cost was around $300 for the elements plus the cost of ICPs. Based on my dosing recommendations some of those elements would hypothetically last 7+ years. The elements that he has that won’t last as long, I will probably make DIY versions at higher concentrations to last longer and at a costs savings.

 

[Billldg]

I would say my main goal is to increase coral growth/colors, mainly in sps.

I could probably move away from leds to more t5 or halide to achieve this but I am more concerned currently with my water parameters. I am going the cheap route(io purple) with salt mixes so I think if I dialed in each of my elements, there could be some benefit.

I thought about going the cheaper route and buying seachem reef trace(it seemed to align pretty well with what my ICP showed was lacking) and dosing it alongside iodine daily but I decided on the moonshiners method due to being able to adjust each individual element. And I think I will personally enjoy this method more. I think the upfront cost was around $300 for the elements plus the cost of ICPs. Based on my dosing recommendations some of those elements would hypothetically last 7+ years. The elements that he has that won’t last as long, I will probably make DIY versions at higher concentrations to last longer and at a costs savings.

Remember this, and I have seen both TSA and LRO farms, and what they are using...HMMM. They mainly use Radion G5's. The LRO Buzz Lightyear I purchased and have shown in my build thread was grown under Radion G5's. I watched them pull the frag from their system. I use a Hybrid only because of the spread, BUT, I may need to move to all Led's as I am seeing some browning out on a few cheaper, BUT, awesome frags in a different location than the Lightyear. It is not always the case, but, color is usually a combination of Par reading and nutirents needed to supply the food at higher Par. I have found that TSA and LRO both have their SPS corals in 350+, but, they also run a No3 of 10-15+ and P04 of .08.