Bean Animal Design Help please

[outdrsyguy1]

Hi all, i'm finalizing the design for my bean animal over flow and since the tank will be see through I'm trying to hide all the piping on one side behind a pillar of rock. So i'm trying to keep it all as near the edge and small as possible.
So please see the following pictures. The renderings are from the tank builder and the chicken scratch is obviously me. I'm trying to determine how wide the "piping pocket" needs to be. Bordered on one side by the egg crate fish screen and the other by the end of the tank.

I'm a little worried about a vortex though at the full siphon channel. I was hoping to leave it as just an open bulkhead. That way I don't have to make it a double elbow wider than necessary (trying to hide pipe).

Posting pics in the next post via my tapatalk phone where i've got all the photos...

I'm also not sure how to set the water height in the overflow box, i'd like it as high as possible so it just trickles over the weir into the overflow with very little fall.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

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[outdrsyguy1]

Here's an approximate view of the rock work with tall puller in back left to hide piping.

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[outdrsyguy1]

Sorry. Pic got rotated wrong.

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[chris s]

I don't think it will work without having the pipe and elbow to set your water height. If I pull out my full siphon standpipe it flushes down and starts to pull air. I understand you are trying to hide the plumbing but the design is proven, I wouldn't mess with it. I trimmed my fittings to make it more compact. Since you aren't putting pressure into the fittings you only need enough plastic for the glue to hold them together. Look at using a street elbow to make it more compact.

Another thought. How much flow are you going for? 2" is huge and can move lots of water. Since you will be throttling it with a valve could you go smaller to save room and throttle less?

 

[billsfan]

Put a gate valve on the full siphon to control water level.

 

[grouper therapy]

No sandpiper is necessary for full syphon. It v will actually pull a little more water that way. Here is the draw back when the return pump is shut down the whole weir box will drain. That is no problem if v you v sump b can handle it. That is exactly how I have mine setup.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

I'm shooting for a max capacity of 10,000 gph but will probably end up around 5k-7k per hour. A 2" line will carry 10k per hour per bean animals calculation page based on my setup. Maybe I'll put a short 3" internal weir in the overflow so it doesn't all flush when the waters off? The overflow box is 8' long so it could hold quite a bit of water.

 

[civics14]

10k gph through an overflow? what size is this tank? It' got to be insanely huge, especially if the overflow box is 8' long

 

[grouper therapy]

The other possible problem with that kind of volume is you will probably create a vortex and lose syphon by not using a turn down standpipe. You may loose it anyway unless that weir is fairly deep. While i appreciate the clean look you are shooting for I personally would black out the weir.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

It's about 950 gallons. I'm going with a smooth, no tooth overflow style to assist with the volume and a almost California style overflow as you can see. I'm planning on putting a black lid over the top of the overflow to try and keep the light out and reduce algae growth. I may blackout last 6 inches of the back of the tank top to also help.

 

[jj ocean]

Just my .02 on the Bean part … I have many questions on the design of a see-through tank with a weir in the viewing direction vs. going the peninsula route, so I’ll trust you have your reasons and just stick with the overflow dynamics.

1. I’d put all the drains on the bottom to not have any drain start with a bend – won’t pull water at the same volume as the others. Maybe separate them on either corner and have 2 pillars, so as to not have a wide pipe section on one end.
2. If your’e set just on one corner, I’d at least make the emergency drain be on the side & the open channel be on the bottom.
3. Ditch the egg crate in the overflow box – just something else to clog and if it did ALL of your drains in your design will be eliminated. Especially at high gph. That’s what the weirs are for. Teeth weirs on the length of that tank can easily handle the volume. Now the amount of CNC cutting/cost is not what the mfg might want to do, but it is not a volume issue. I’d be worried about clogs with the smooth weir (especially snails).
4. Vortex concern – not an issue; the weirs on the overflow will ensure even flow from the tank into the overflow box. Now the water will definitely rush hard down the box to the full siphon, but that’s not a concern.

For what it’s worth, I wasn’t comfortable running 5,000 gph w/o installing 2 emergency drains and they are spaced evenly apart. If you had a clog issue in that tight placement, I’d be VERY nervous running 10,000 gph with just 1 side emergency.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

Thanks everyone for the input! Much appreciated.
I'm going to install a backlit backdrop oceanscape to give the viewing a lot of depth so I'm trying to keep the viewing area clear as possible. When working on the tank I'll have the backdrop go up to the ceiling or slide to the side.
I could put another pipe on the opposite side but it would be a really long horizontal run over to the sump and I was worried about a good siphon not forming if anything had to flow from the other side.
I like the smooth weir overflow because I think it helps with surface protein removal and gas exchange with mostly surface water entering the overflow.
The only concerns I've heard are about fish getting into the overflow which I was trying to handle with the egg crate.

If I lay blackout on top of the overflow and the last 6" of the tank do you think it'll need to be cleaned often?

 

[grouper therapy]

JJ Ocean;1076754 wrote: Just my .02 on the Bean part … I have many questions on the design of a see-through tank with a weir in the viewing direction vs. going the peninsula route, so I’ll trust you have your reasons and just stick with the overflow dynamics.

1. I’d put all the drains on the bottom to not have any drain start with a bend – won’t pull water at the same volume as the others. Maybe separate them on either corner and have 2 pillars, so as to not have a wide pipe section on one end.
2. If your’e set just on one corner, I’d at least make the emergency drain be on the side & the open channel be on the bottom.
3. Ditch the egg crate in the overflow box – just something else to clog and if it did ALL of your drains in your design will be eliminated. Especially at high gph. That’s what the weirs are for. Teeth weirs on the length of that tank can easily handle the volume. Now the amount of CNC cutting/cost is not what the mfg might want to do, but it is not a volume issue. I’d be worried about clogs with the smooth weir (especially snails).
4. Vortex concern – not an issue; the weirs on the overflow will ensure even flow from the tank into the overflow box. Now the water will definitely rush hard down the box to the full siphon, but that’s not a concern.

For what it’s worth, I wasn’t comfortable running 5,000 gph w/o installing 2 emergency drains and they are spaced evenly apart. If you had a clog issue in that tight placement, I’d be VERY nervous running 10,000 gph with just 1 side emergency.

If not deep enough and open to the top a vortex will be created just above the bulkhead by the drain if the siphon is strong enough much like that of a pulled plug on a sink.. I just rectified the same scenario on my tank. Can be eliminated by a valve but will cut back his targeted flow.

 

[jj ocean]

grouper therapy;1076769 wrote: If not deep enough and open to the top a vortex will be created just above the bulkhead by the drain if the siphon is strong enough much like that of a pulled plug on a sink.. I just rectified the same scenario on my tank. Can be eliminated by a valve but will cut back his targeted flow.

I guess I misinterpreted the OP that he was concerned about a vortex within the tank near the full siphon drain. I can see how that could be an issue inside the overflow box if it made noise. Agree on the valve on the full siphon as the solve (spec'd on Bean Animal design).

I have a gate valve on mine, but I ended up not having to engage it based on my flow. I don't technically have a vortex at my full siphon drain, but it certainly has significant/violent water flow (1.5" pipe).

BTW - my overflow is completely blacked out & I only have to do a mild cleaning every 6 months - mainly knocking off any encrusting tube worms.

 

[bcavalli]

Rusty, You have really outdone yourself and I can't wait to see it all setup in person. Great job on everything so far!

 

[Adam]

outdrsyguy1;1076751 wrote: It's about 950 gallons. I'm going with a smooth, no tooth overflow style to assist with the volume and a almost California style overflow as you can see. I'm planning on putting a black lid over the top of the overflow to try and keep the light out and reduce algae growth. I may blackout last 6 inches of the back of the tank top to also help.

I was going for the same type setup as you were regarding a clean look and keeping everything as hidden as possible, just not on your scale. Then I saw a vid and a few pics online that were algae farms, including coralline. At 8’ long you could almost have a refugium in there.

I also agree with John about the open channel and egg crate. The open channel Is designed to use the whole internal surface of the pipe to move the excess water down to the sump. Coming out the side it will run down the inside edge of the pipe and might make some noise. With the egg crate, if a fish does make it into the overflow it’ll have a better chance taking a ride down to the sump. With the amount of flow you’re going to have in there as soon as the fish swims up to the egg crate it’ll get stuck there and all of you pipes are on the other side. You could have over 200 gallons on the floor in under 15 minutes at full flow depending on how big your return area at the pump is.

I decided to go with this.

 

[outdrsyguy1]

anit77;1076791 wrote: I was going for the same type setup as you were regarding a clean look and keeping everything as hidden as possible, just not on your scale. Then I saw a vid and a few pics online that were algae farms, including coralline. At 8’ long you could almost have a refugium in there.

I also agree with John about the open channel and egg crate. The open channel Is designed to use the whole internal surface of the pipe to move the excess water down to the sump. Coming out the side it will run down the inside edge of the pipe and might make some noise. With the egg crate, if a fish does make it into the overflow it’ll have a better chance taking a ride down to the sump. With the amount of flow you’re going to have in there as soon as the fish swims up to the egg crate it’ll get stuck there and all of you pipes are on the other side. You could have over 200 gallons on the floor in under 15 minutes at full flow depending on how big your return area at the pump is.

I decided to go with this. http://www.exoticmarinesystems.com">www.exoticmarinesystems.com</a> The guy that owns the site is Justin. He’s active over at R2R and had a 5 footer ready so I bought it and he shipped quick. You may want to reach out to him and bounce your ideas off him. I’m sure he could help you make a design that will get closer to fitting your needs.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the input Adam, the tank builder originally suggested the ghost overflow style like you did and i really like it, i'm just hoping I'm not making a mistake trying the getup I'm going for. I guess I could always get a strip of black pvc and glue it to the inside edge of the overflow to block out the light if it gets too be too much of a job cleaning. Definitely won't be able to keep any CUC in there at my flow rate ;)

[QUOTE=][B]Bcavalli;1076787 wrote:[/B] Rusty, You have really outdone yourself and I can't wait to see it all setup in person. Great job on everything so far![/QUOTE]

Thanks Brett! finally some movement on the tank building again so it's exciting. As you can imagine, i was getting pretty down since it's been about 8-9 months since i ordered the tank.

i'll let the cat out of the bag, i'm going for something very similar to this, only done via painting and a backlit T5 setup...
[IMG]http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1868825">http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1868825</a>
my wife's a professional artist so I think she'll be able to help me out on this one, she's done a lot of murals over the years.

 

[grouper therapy]

Given your design I don't b think noise will be an issue.the one drain you do have that is on the side is only the emergency overflow so if it does get noisy even better. No need to redesign what you have. I don't think the egg crate will be a problem either as the pressure against it will not be that great especially on a area that big. It will not be as much force as it will be in the pipe against a ball valve!

 

[ghbrewer]

outdrsyguy1;1076711 wrote: Sorry. Pic got rotated wrong.

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That will work, but I would suggest a strainer on the full siphon pipe. You will have to clean it from time to time, but it will help keep bigger snails out of the pipe and smaller fish from going down.


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