Bubble tip anemones - information request

[sharis100]

I would love to know more about bubble tip anemones and color morphs and what makes one more valuable than another and how you can ID them. Does anyone have photographs of their BTAs and have information to share Originally, we had a single rose RBTA and a Single green BTA. After they fully matured, they had chemical warfare battle and the rose won and absorbed the green’s zooxanthellae and now all the progeny are a mixture of the two original BTAs we had in our system and look totally different then the originals. Is this how different strains develop? Trying to further my knowledge, thanks in advance for any help.

 

[ichthyoid]

If that’s the outcome of their allelopathic warfare, I want some of that carnage!

They are beautiful!

I’m only going to have one, and it will be a few months yet, but I’d love to have another rainbow, like one of these. Thanks for sharing

 

[ActiveAngel]

That’s an unfortunate and wonderful turn of events. Usually, when they go to war with each other, the weaker one simply dies and turns to mush, oftentimes over a period of hours/days. I’ve never heard of any species (outside of some bacteria) that are able to absorb genetic code from their environment. However, it may be possible to take up new symbiotic algae... that’s a very interesting prospect, at least.

The morphs are simply common names to describe and communicate color patterns, and the value of a morph is determined wholly by supply and demand. Years ago, a good rainbow BTA (green center with red tentacles, like your photos) sold for $200-400 each. Nowadays, they are maybe $40-80 because supply increased substantially.

BTAs can reproduce through many methods, one of which is by spawning, which will combine the DNA of their parents, with minor mutations. That is likely how most morphs/strains developed. Baby BTAs drifted as plankton, settled down on a rock somewhere, and began growing with new genetic material combined with new algae.

 

[sharis100]

If that’s the outcome of their allelopathic warfare, I want some of that carnage!

They are beautiful!

I’m only going to have one, and it will be a few months yet, but I’d love to have another rainbow, like one of these. Thanks for sharing

I went from 2 to 1 to now 6 possibly 7 in our new system

 

[ActiveAngel]

And you asked for photos: Here is one of my Chicago Sunburst BTAs, under white lights, in its mature yellow phase.

 

[ActiveAngel]

And here is another BTA, which I’ve seen go by numerous names: Alien Eye, Flame Tip,...

It’s super pissed right now, because it’s in a small tank and I just did a 30% water change. I can post other photos later if you want, when it’s fluffy and shining it’s colors.

 

[hzheng33]

Colorado sunburst, under full spectrum

 

[bg2311]

Ours just split into two a few days ago. Prior to split below.

 

[sharis100]

Finding this very helpful. And then pics are great, I can keep this thread to reference so I know what people are talking about! thank you!

 

[Shawn]

Colorado sunburst, under full spectrum

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Isn't it impossible to keep those with other anemones though? That's simply stunning.

 

[ActiveAngel]

Isn't it impossible to keep those with other anemones though? That's simply stunning.

I think you’re referring to allelopathy.

Its not quite impossible, but it is very difficult/improbable that they will survive alongside other BTAs. All sunbursts (Colorado and Chicago) have exceptionally weak chemical defenses. I got extremely lucky that mine survive my rainbow BTAs.

 

[sharis100]

I think you’re referring to allelopathy.

Its not quite impossible, but it is very difficult/improbable that they will survive alongside other BTAs. All sunbursts (Colorado and Chicago) have exceptionally weak chemical defenses. I got extremely lucky that mine survive my rainbow BTAs.

If your strain survives then breeding that strain would be wise, right?

 

[hzheng33]

If your strain survives then breeding that strain would be wise, right?

Not necessarily, your mileage still may vary.

I have seen some of those chi/colorado mixing with regular rbta, but over time, they lose the signature orange/yellow coloration

 

[ActiveAngel]

Yes @sharis100 If you were breeding BTAs, you should have a statistical advantage with breeding a stronger strain. I think @hzheng33 is pointing out is that it’s not a guarantee, which is true for nearly all breeding programs.

That’s interesting that you’ve seen some mixed sunbursts lose color. I’ve had mine together for 3-4 years. So far, this hasn’t happened, but I’m going to keep an open eye.

 

[ActiveAngel]

Just saw your other post about WWC Hawaiian Punch vs Rainbow BTAs.

From everything I’ve seen, this is a prime example of a company rebranding and existing coral/anemone in order to increase the profits by decreasing the perceived supply. WWC is probably most notorious for this behavior.

Essentially, this entails taking an existing coral, give it a new name, and then state that you can’t find it anywhere else. This allows them to charge a high price for the same item.

If you were to ask WWC how all their morphs differ from others (you can even sometimes get records of them purchasing corals from other brands), they may or may not have a response. The real question is if you take this coral to a bunch of experts, and ask them “what is this?”, which answer will they tell you. WWC gets away with this more than others because their brand name is so huge, so It’s easy for them to outcompete and step-on smaller brands to steal their corals. ...I like WWC, but I don’t condone this behavior.

 

[Trizzino]

Yep. As with anything in this hobby and even with every hobby I’ve been a part of branding does increase or decrease the value. How it’s done is more of an ethical discussion. When it comes to resell frags the name will get attention.

 

[hzheng33]

Just saw your other post about WWC Hawaiian Punch vs Rainbow BTAs.

From everything I’ve seen, this is a prime example of a company rebranding and existing coral/anemone in order to increase the profits by decreasing the perceived supply. WWC is probably most notorious for this behavior.

Essentially, this entails taking an existing coral, give it a new name, and then state that you can’t find it anywhere else. This allows them to charge a high price for the same item.

If you were to ask WWC how all their morphs differ from others (you can even sometimes get records of them purchasing corals from other brands), they may or may not have a response. The real question is if you take this coral to a bunch of experts, and ask them “what is this?”, which answer will they tell you. WWC gets away with this more than others because their brand name is so huge, so It’s easy for them to outcompete and step-on smaller brands to steal their corals. ...I like WWC, but I don’t condone this behavior.

couldn't agree with this more. they will slap on a name of "wwc sakura sunrise" to a regular red acan and a green birdsnest "muy verde birdsnest".

in my opinion that hawaiian punch is nothing but a regular rbta but if they can slap on a name to it and sell it at that price, props to them.

 

[sharis100]

This is all great knowledge! I kept looking at photos and descriptions and could not understand all these different names when they all looked so similar. Now I am starting to understand. Thank you for sharing!

 

[ichthyoid]

Among some recent reading is that both allelopathy and overall health of cnidarians, which includes corals & anemones, the protists/ bacteria & fungi/yeasts they associate with appear to have a very large influence. It might be more appropriate to think of corals as their own ecosystems. Like humans, they contain extremely large populations embedded in their mucous layer & digestive tracts.

It is the associated organisms that are waging much of the allelopathic warfare. As an example, lactobacillus & vibrio will not tolerate one another. Lactobacillus are common and include beneficial strains used to make cheeses & yogurt. Vibrio are largely pathogenic to humans.

Most of the antibiotics discovered come from fungi or bacteria. The organisms use these as chemical weapons against one another. The cnidarians associate with groups of these organisms & benefit by receiving nutrition, improved defenses & other essential or favorable influences.

These studies are likely to have wide ranging impacts on our hobby as well as other issues like global warming, ecology & pollution.

 

[DiefsReef]

Colorado sunburst, under full spectrum

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I have never seen a Colordao Sunburts till now. Gorgeous!