Calcium reactor - what am I missing?

[thbrewst]

Finally put together my Calcium ractor set-up this weekend. I feel like I am missing something it understanding how this all works.

My set-up is;
- Lifereef reactor, w/Mag 7 circulator pump, and pH probe socket
- pH probe and monitor, probe installed in reactor socket
- Rio 180 feed pump from sump to reactor

So, I put everything together, calibrated the pH probe, hooked up the CO2. Everything seemed OK. When I turned everything on though a steady stream of water started coming out of the effluent hose. It hit me (not sure why it took this long) that the rate of flow from the effluent hose is going to be approx the same as the rate being input by the Rio 180, correct? What comes in must go out. But all of the 'instructions' that I have seem imply that the rate of exhaust from the effluent hose should be measured in drips not gallons. Am I supposed to use tighten down on the effluent screw valve tight enough that it resists that much pressure? If so, does that pressure then back up thought the reactor all the way to the Rio pump? The reactor instructions imply that most of the system is 'low pressure', which is why I would hesitate to back the pressure into the reactor without knowing it is the right thing to do.

Generally my set-up is similar to http://melevsreef.com/calcium_reactor.html">this</a> one (my reactor is just smaller). Like I said I think I have everything installed correctly, I think I just have a lack of thorough understanding of the details of how this set-up should function.

Thanks for the education...

 

[lilrobb]

Yup,

you need to create pressure in the unit - also helps with CO2 dissipation...

 

[cr500_af]

Yes, use the screw valve to adjust outflow. The amount you want will ultimately be determined in your tuning of the reactor to maintain CA, not raise it.

 

[thbrewst]

OK, so essentially the screw valve will be 'closed' allowing only a trickle of water through (at least until I get time to start measuring and adjusting). The pressure will back up into the reactor and ultimately limit the amount that the Rio pump is able to add to the system. Sound right?

 

[rbredding]

thbrewst;609654 wrote: OK, so essentially the screw valve will be 'closed' allowing only a trickle of water through (at least until I get time to start measuring and adjusting). The pressure will back up into the reactor and ultimately limit the amount that the Rio pump is able to add to the system. Sound right?

You adjust a calcium reactor by either increasing or decreasing the amount of CO2 injected into the system. you don't adjust flow within the reactor or flow in/out of the reactor..

The correct answer is that as long as the PH within your reactor is correct, your CO2 regulator will stay closed, when your PH gets too high (which it will try to do since you are constantly adding new aquarium water at a higher PH by your feed hose)

When the PH gets too high, and the media stops breaking down, your regulator will open and let in CO2 in the form of bubbles (seen in the bubble counter). The CO2 will lower the PH within the reaction chamber and your media will begin to dissolve again.

if the PH in your reaction chamber is too low, your controller will close the regulator and allow the new salt water (from the feed line) raise the PH so that you keep the PH in a constant range conducive to breaking down the media.

this is why it is important to have the solenoid controlled by a ph probe constantly testing the water within the reaction chamber..

 

[thbrewst]

Rbredding;609688 wrote: You adjust a calcium reactor by either increasing or decreasing the amount of CO2 injected into the system. you don't adjust flow within the reactor or flow in/out of the reactor..

The correct answer is that as long as the PH within your reactor is correct, your CO2 regulator will stay closed, when your PH gets too high (which it will try to do since you are constantly adding new aquarium water at a higher PH by your feed hose)

When the PH gets too high, and the media stops breaking down, your regulator will open and let in CO2 in the form of bubbles (seen in the bubble counter). The CO2 will lower the PH within the reaction chamber and your media will begin to dissolve again.

if the PH in your reaction chamber is too low, your controller will close the regulator and allow the new salt water (from the feed line) raise the PH so that you keep the PH in a constant range conducive to breaking down the media.

this is why it is important to have the solenoid controlled by a ph probe constantly testing the water within the reaction chamber..

I obviously have not made it that far yet, but what is the proper process to get your desired calcium number in the main tank then? Do I just lower the 'trigger' pH in the reactor so it dissolves more media? Do I increase the effluent output (sounds like you are saying 'no')? A little of both?

 

[mufret]

Rbredding;609688 wrote: You adjust a calcium reactor by either increasing or decreasing the amount of CO2 injected into the system. you don't adjust flow within the reactor or flow in/out of the reactor..

The correct answer is that as long as the PH within your reactor is correct, your CO2 regulator will stay closed, when your PH gets too high (which it will try to do since you are constantly adding new aquarium water at a higher PH by your feed hose)

When the PH gets too high, and the media stops breaking down, your regulator will open and let in CO2 in the form of bubbles (seen in the bubble counter). The CO2 will lower the PH within the reaction chamber and your media will begin to dissolve again.

if the PH in your reaction chamber is too low, your controller will close the regulator and allow the new salt water (from the feed line) raise the PH so that you keep the PH in a constant range conducive to breaking down the media.

this is why it is important to have the solenoid controlled by a ph probe constantly testing the water within the reaction chamber..

That's not entirely accurate, the PH inside the reactor is only one side of the equation.

To properly adjust a calcium reactor, you need to adjust both the PH inside the reactor (it has to be set at a level that will dissolve the media and be mantained at that level, as mentioned above) AND you have to adjust the effluent coming out of the reactor (this allows you to control and maintain the calcium and alk levels in your tank). You control the effluent of the reactor by either restricting the output or controlling the amount of water going into the reactor. Either way, limiting the effluent allows the PH in the reactor to stabilize so it can effectively break down the media and it allows you to be able to control the calcium and alk of the output.

 

[rbredding]

restricting the effluent is done by virtue of it's setting "dripping" into the tank (vs. a steady stream).. as long as the effluent is dripping at a slow rate into a sump or other vigorously agitated area of the system, the effluent will dissipate and raise the level of calcium in the water.

anything faster than a drip, and you will have to set an electronic means to shut off the effluent/inflow or you could drop the PH in the system further than can be compensated for under normal lighting conditions. (I've never heard of anyone having to do this)

isnt the effluent very high in dKH ? (does that in some way assist in stabilizing the PH of the system as a whole?)

 

[haninja]

Both the flow and the bobble count has to be adjusted and both are in relation to your tank demand.
The more demand you have the more flow you will need. The more flow the more CO2 will be required to drop the PH.
The bigger the tank/demand the bigger reaction chamber and media will be needed.
You have to take all these parameters into consideration.

 

[rbredding]

How do people manage the "flow" ?
Manually or with a pickup pump that turns on/off?


regardless of how else you look at it.. you will be managing how well your tank (at or above 8.0 PH) absorbs and levels out the drops of 6.4(?) PH...

you'll effectively average (proportionally) how the drops at a lower PH average out with the tank/sump volume at a higher PH..

 

[haninja]

Rbredding;609821 wrote: How do people manage the "flow" ?
Manually or with a pickup pump that turns on/off?

Some reactors already come with a needle valve, other, like I do in my case, I just added a valve to my output:

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[thbrewst]

So, does it not ultimately decrease the life of the input pump (in my case Rio 180) to have the flow so restricted or are they capable of withstanding that?

 

[Jaycen B.]

Quick ? does the reactor need to be pressurized?^^^

 

[rbredding]

yes, but that is a manual setup.. Mufret implies that the effluent is something that you should monitor (as equally as you monitor the ph within the reactor - which would require a controller)...


incidentally, there are approximately 74,000 "drops" in a gallon...

I'll let you do the math on how many drops it would take for a drop of effluent (PH of 6.5) to lower a gallon of aquarium system water (PH of 8.0) by 0.2 PH..

 

[haninja]

You should monitor the effluent but I don't think it was implied of an automated method. In fact, I don't know of an automated method to both test the effluent and restrict the flow according to the PH and/or calcium level...
The monitoring should be done daily when you first set it up for probably 2 weeks until you have determined the flow rate and bubble count rate that will maintain your tank at the level you desire.

 

[mufret]

I test the alkalinity of my effluent during the "tuning" of the reactor to make sure it's going to be adding the levels of calcium/alkalinity that I think are going to be needed to maintain the system (Depending on the system, I shoot for a DKh of somewhere between 25 - 45). I then test it, every so often, to make sure that it's still where it needs to be or when ever I notice that the alkalinity or calcium demand of the tank have significant changes (which might indicate that you need to re-tune the reactor because your system is using more than your current settings are able to provide). Unfortunately, because we want our reefs to grow, calcium reactor shouldn't be thought of as a "set it and forget it" piece of equipment. We need to make SMALL adjustments along the way to maintain the system as it grows.