Even though I'm designing my new system to accomodate any power loss, I am still going to put in a check valve so that if I want to turn the pump off for feeding or maintenance all the water from the pipes going to the basement won't have to drain.
Check valve....
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That is an acceptable use for a check valve IMO, just do not design a system that relies on it to stop a flood. It will fail eventually. Also keep in mind that check valves are not "free", they do cost you some flow...
I will second Jimmy's comments on cleaning your anti-siphon holes every month or so. I make them 1/8" or bigger and place them 1/8" above the water's surface, drilled at an angle so the water flow is down into the tank.
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I can attest to the failure of check valves. I have one on my 40 frag that I'd hope would keep it from full draining with a power failure. Last sunday I found out that it didn't do it's job. My 40 frag tank fully drained. Mind oyu I have (had) a spraybar at the bottom of my tank. It's disconnected now but if the check valve had worked properly I wouldn't have lost a drop of water, but due to some type of build up in the check valve itself, it failed. I would definitely design several different fail safes into the system, check vlave, siphon hole below the surface of the water, etc. Good luck!
You can also use http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~SearchStr~check%20valve~action~view~idProduct~FT9155~idCategory~FIFTVLTC~category~True_Union_Swing_Check_Valve___1_inch_Slip_x_1_inch_Slip_Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies_Plumbing_Parts_Valves_True_Union_Swing_Check~vendor~.html">one of these</a> to make the union thing easier - makes periodic maintenace easier as well.
[IMG]http://www.marinedepot.com/IMD/250/FT9155/FT9155_99.jpg alt="" />
[IMG]http://www.marinedepot.com/IMD/250/FT9155/FT9155_99.jpg alt="" />
I am not a fan of small holes drilled in return plumbing either. I just lift one of my nozzles out of the water and I do it for each return (I have two). I have very little worry that anything will clog two very large return nozzles.
Check valves also have a nasty habit of shutting and not opening or at least not opening fully. I have to stand by my oritinal statement that they are just bad news. I know even when working most do cause more resistence in the return reducing effeciency of the return pump as well.
Come see my system. I can show you a valid use that can't be solved any other way except a check valve: I have 16' of 1.5" pipe above my sequence pump. If I get a power flicker, then the downrush of water is too much to overcome the starting up of the pump, and all I get is cavitation. I've come home more than once to a pump just spinning. If I use a check valve, then the power can hiccup without losing momentum in my pump. If it fails, then I haven't lost anything. But for the 99% of the time that it works, it saves my tank.
I think they're fine as long as you're not relying on them.
Didin't we talk about your setup once before? I thought I had a delay solution for that which would work. If you run a controller and I am pretty sure you run a really nice one, you should be able to restart the pump say 5 minutes after a power failure and it should work just fine no check vavle necessary.
I had written about it before, but I didn't realize you had given a response.
To put my main return pump under control of any computer just doesn't seem like a good idea. Gravity doesn't fail, but controllers do. I think I'll stick with my check valve...
To put my main return pump under control of any computer just doesn't seem like a good idea. Gravity doesn't fail, but controllers do. I think I'll stick with my check valve...
Oh god dont EVER buy a HD check valve, they will fail and soon, and to top it off most of them have a bare metal spring in them.
the clear one mojo posted is the only one you should use, everything else is crap. you should not need a check valve if you put a small hole at the top of the return, but its a nice safety.
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Yes, this will obviously work also. Just out of curiosity, why are you not a fan of siphon holes (that are properly maintained)? Of course without maintenance, they will be problematic, but seriously, I am talking 1 second of work every week or two. I run a wavysea unit, and I could not mount the nozzle to not be under the water surface, so I could not use the option you mention. That being said, I prefer the nozzle under the water to allow a little more in tank current, rather than straight surface current. I still get a noticeable agitation at the surface, but not as I would when the nozzle was at the surface (as it was with my sea swirl).
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Ok really theres no debate on this in my instance.
Under my stand I have three 10 gallon tanks, one for the sump, one for the return and one for the fuge.
It was a fight to get a standard 10 gallon tank into the stand and anything outside of the dimensions of those ten gallons be it longer or taller ain't going.
The sump usually has the least water in it at about 1/4 full so that leaves 7.5 gallons of room, the return is half full so now I'm at 12.5 and the fuge can only hold about 2 gallons for a total of 14.5 gallons before flood.
From the plastic rim at the top of the display, there is only a 1/4" of glass before the top of the 3/4 return bulkhead so I could not have brought it higher. Same with the overflow 1" bulkhead.
I removed 15 gallons of water from the display before I started to see a hint of siphon break I would guess 20 gallons would stop the siphon which puts 4.5 gallons on my floor.
So the check valve while not being foolproof is 1 million times the safegaurd of not having anything and at 6 bucks a pop I can afford to change them out every month however, I have come up with my fail safe which will happen this weekend.
I have drilled a hole in the back of each 10 gallon tank. The holes have positive slope from right to left. I have installed a 3/4 bulkhead in each with a 90 degree elbow facing up in each tank to act as an emergency overflow.
This weekend I will connect all three to an 8 foot run of 1" pipe and run that sucker to the out side......problem SOLVED!
Under my stand I have three 10 gallon tanks, one for the sump, one for the return and one for the fuge.
It was a fight to get a standard 10 gallon tank into the stand and anything outside of the dimensions of those ten gallons be it longer or taller ain't going.
The sump usually has the least water in it at about 1/4 full so that leaves 7.5 gallons of room, the return is half full so now I'm at 12.5 and the fuge can only hold about 2 gallons for a total of 14.5 gallons before flood.
From the plastic rim at the top of the display, there is only a 1/4" of glass before the top of the 3/4 return bulkhead so I could not have brought it higher. Same with the overflow 1" bulkhead.
I removed 15 gallons of water from the display before I started to see a hint of siphon break I would guess 20 gallons would stop the siphon which puts 4.5 gallons on my floor.
So the check valve while not being foolproof is 1 million times the safegaurd of not having anything and at 6 bucks a pop I can afford to change them out every month however, I have come up with my fail safe which will happen this weekend.
I have drilled a hole in the back of each 10 gallon tank. The holes have positive slope from right to left. I have installed a 3/4 bulkhead in each with a 90 degree elbow facing up in each tank to act as an emergency overflow.
This weekend I will connect all three to an 8 foot run of 1" pipe and run that sucker to the out side......problem SOLVED!
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Not really... take this scenario - the power goes off for 5 minutes and all water drains to your sumps, 5 gallons overflows outside. Now the power comes back on and your return pump pushes the remaining water up into your display but then starts to suck air preventing circulation...
I would either:
1) run your return plumbing inside your display so that the pipes bend up towards the surface before pointing back down to where you want them. Drill a siphon break in that plumbing where the pipes are closest to the surface.
2) Lower the normal running levels inthe "return" and fuge tanks so that you get enough reserve capacity.
3) Build a custom acrylic sump that fits your stand that can hold enough water.
While I largely agree that check valves should never ever be trusted to prevent flodding, etc i think Mojo's use is an interesting one and actually one I might use. I could do what Cameron says also with the power failure to the aquacontroller but the preference would be in a powerflicker to just immediately come back on so the tank doesn't drain the 1" or so that it would. That would cause some of my SPS to be out of water. While not a horrific tradegy for 5 minutes, if the lights come on and this sucker is sitting bare under it it could cause issues that a checkvalve could at least most likely help. You're not relying on it and it can only help!
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