Cliff notes of Seachem speech at last night's meeting

triggerhappy8

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I posted this in the meeting thread but since I spent the time to do it, I wanted to repost it for visibility purposes.

Part I - Importance of Mg
Magnesium is essential to the ability to maintain Ca, Alk, and pH.
Magnesium can maintain in solution in much higher levels than Ca or Sr due to being higher up in the same column on the periodic table (i.e. more soluble).
High magnesium levels serve as interference (orange ping pong balls) between Ca ions (white ping pong balls with white Velcro) and Carbonate molecules (white with black Velcro).
Magnesium blocks the Ca Carbonate reaction and allows Ca ions to remain in solution at higher ppm levels in the usable form to corals. Ca does not good to aquarists in CaCarbonate form (chalk/snowstorm/precipitate).

Part II - Why Seachem?

Magnesium Sulfate (Seachem) = Best (doesn't add to sulfates)
Epsom Salt = Magnesium Sulfate but may have additives that can hurt such as Ocean Breeze fragrance
Liquid Magnesium (Mg Chlorate?) = Good in a pinch. It is much more soluble than Mag Sulfate and boosts it much more quickly (higher concentration). However, it contains harmful organics (read ammonia and nitrates) due to the way it is produced. Not a good long term solution.
No magnesium additive at all = Tank crash waiting to happen

Part III - Buffers

Not all buffers are the same.
Buffers shift formulas over time.
Strongest is Sodium Bicarbonate that buffers to 8.9ish
That breaks down into Sodium Carbonate that buffers to 8.4ish
It then breaks down into [don’t remember] which buffers 7.8.
Finally goes to CO2 which is neutral.
What you add to the tank is not the only buffer in the tank. Other sources of acids and bases shift your pH for you. You have to override them to get where you want to be.
If your Mg is good and you are still not able to raise your pH to the proper levels, then you should call Seachem Tech Support to pinpoint the source of the other buffer that is controlling the tank.
I know the third section isn't making sense but I am doing all this off memory and please someone correct all this.

Part IV - Q&A
Don't remember them all but this one I remember since I didn't know it.
Are high Ca levels required for softies (ie shrooms, leathers, zoas) growth?
To some degree it helps, but iodine levels are much more important for softie growth.

Part V - FREE Seachem Magnesium supplements for everybody!<span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">!! :yay: :thumbs: :up: </span></span>
 
Thanks for posting this!!! +1 I think you got most of it!!! It was a great meeting, I wish it was as packed as the Frag meeting because it is infor that everyone asks and could have answered most everyones questions!
 
yeah it was a sad turnout, but kudos for those who made it! It was a good time.
 
still wishing there were nametags.....

(grumble)

I'd like to have met you two.

Tell ya'll what.... I'll print everyone's name/avitars for the next meeting and we can all pin 'em to our shirts.
 
dangit ~ ~ I'd have taken notes too if I'd known we could get rep points for it!!

Nice goin', trigger!
 
+1 great post and I hate that we had a poor turnout and I contributed. Any mention of club discounts on their stuff? I would use Advantage Calcium because it has mag already in it if I could get it relatively cheap.
 
What happend at the meeting that was bad if i am overstepping a boundry then just don't reply and i will understand
 
Nano_Reefer92;55692 wrote: What happend at the meeting that was bad ...

Nothing bad happened at the meeting, It was a great meeting: great presentation and nice corals raffled off too!

His comment related back to the fact that we just wished that more than the ~40+ folks that were there had heard and seen Brian's presentation; <u>especially</u> since this topic comes up soooo frequently from frustrated aquarists having problems with their calcium and/or PH and/or Alkalinity (or DKH).

Bob
 
Cameron;55685 wrote: +1 great post and I hate that we had a poor turnout and I contributed. Any mention of club discounts on their stuff? I would use Advantage Calcium because it has mag already in it if I could get it relatively cheap.


Ya discussed was also that even with Adv Cal you need to dose Mag... FYI...
 
I badly wanted to be there but I had to watch my little one last night. THanks for posting this info.
 
Lifestudent;55704 wrote: Nothing bad happened at the meeting, It was a great meeting: great presentation and nice corals raffled off too!

His comment related back to the fact that we just wished that more than the ~40+ folks that were there had heard and seen Brian's presentation; <u>especially</u> since this topic comes up soooo frequently from frustrated aquarists having problems with their calcium and/or PH and/or Alkalinity (or DKH).

Bob


Exactly!!!! This should have been a turn out of 100+ reefers... New reefs and old alike! There was alot of good info on a subject that not many understand... even more so, about what is in the products and why you still need to suppliment!
 
triggerhappy8;55671 wrote:
Part III - Buffers

Not all buffers are the same....
Buffers shift formulas over time.
Strongest is Sodium Bicarbonate that buffers to 8.9ish
That breaks down into Sodium Carbonate that buffers to 8.4ish
It then breaks down into <span style="color: blue;">Carbonic Acid</span> which buffers 7.8
Finally goes to CO2 which is neutral..........

Thanks Craig for the write-up! Nice job! :up:

Bob
 
hehehehe, Brians visual aids were awesome too!! I could listen to him ramble on about reef tanks and the chemistry for hours, great guy and always a pleasure to have around the club.
 
Your compunds are still wrong on those...

Marine Buffer 8.3:
Borate is ~9.2
Carbonate is 8.8
Sodium Bicarbonate is 7.6

It's a blend of these that stablize at 8.3-8.4. This goes into why stable KH is not equal to high pH, as KH is a test of all carbonates.

Reef Buffer doesn't use borate, as coral cannot use it as a skeletal builder. It instead relies more on sodium carbonate.

Carbonic acid, being an acid, will wear away at those compounds, as is evident in what makes long distance fish shipping. The CO2 converts to carbonic acid in the closed environment, lowering the pH but also converting NH3 to NH4+.

If I'm wrong on these, I'll check my notes or give Brian a call to clarify. I went through Seachem Platinum Dealer training a few months ago, which included about 12 hours of discussion like this over 2 days.
 
DannyBradley;55860 wrote: Your compunds are still wrong on those...

Marine Buffer 8.3:
Borate is ~9.2
Carbonate is 8.8
Sodium Bicarbonate is 7.6

It's a blend of these that stablize at 8.3-8.4. This goes into why stable KH is not equal to high pH, as KH is a test of all carbonates.

Reef Buffer doesn't use borate, as coral cannot use it as a skeletal builder. It instead relies more on sodium carbonate.

Carbonic acid, being an acid, will wear away at those compounds, as is evident in what makes long distance fish shipping. The CO2 converts to carbonic acid in the closed environment, lowering the pH but also converting NH3 to NH4+.

If I'm wrong on these, I'll check my notes or give Brian a call to clarify. I went through Seachem Platinum Dealer training a few months ago, which included about 12 hours of discussion like this over 2 days.


Is this Danny from Petland?
 
Xyzpdq0121;55707 wrote: Ya discussed was also that even with Adv Cal you need to dose Mag... FYI...
I do as after reading found out it is very hard to overdose. That said, I am suprised a bit because Adv Calcium is designed to raise Ca mainly due to the fact it has Mag in it. What are the advantages over their regular calcium product if Adv Calcium doesn't increase the mag content in the tank to a reasonable level? Hmmm... should have showed up...
 
I knew I had some of the stuff wrong. Like I said I was just going by memory to try to get some of the info down for those who were not at the meeting at Cameron's request. If anyone else sees anything wrong, please correct it.
 
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