Clownfish- ich? Brook?

[thebookshark]

Hello everyone,

My clownfish seems to have either ich or Brook. I know I likely have ich in the system as I had a Royal Gramma succumb despite treatment with PolypLab Medic (about a month ago). However I have a possum wrasse and a YWG which have always been completely unaffected (I know these species are often resistant; I was under the impression clownfish were as well due to their thick slime coats but alas). I do not have a QT but I pulled the fish today and did a 30 minute bath with Ich-X in tank water in a separate container. The fish is still eating and swimming actively. It was panting a bit after the bath but seems to have recovered fine now.

Can anyone ID the parasite and recommend any other treatments? I do not have a QT and don’t want to treat the display as I have a clam and lots of other sensitive inverts and SPS. I understand ich will remain in the system but the other two fish are perfectly healthy and have had zero signs of infection so really I just want to get the clown stable enough to fight it off if possible. TY!

 

[90gDreams]

looks more like velvet or brook than Ick. I don't have any treatment recommendations if you aren't willing to fallow the tank and treat the fish outside the display. You can do various dips like a formalin bath to knock it back but once you put it back in there is a strong chance it will simply reinfect the fish.

Depending on the outcome of this you might want to consider looking into the tank transfer method, or buying fish directly from ORA, Biota, or other breeding facilities. Fish diseases are a real pain to deal with once in the system. Ick isn't always terrible but plenty of other ones can just about ruin this hobby for you.

 

[siege]

Can you get a picture under white light only? And/or video?

Treating a display and nuking ones biodiversity is, as far as I'm concerned, is usually a non-option. But at this point I think you'd be well advised to invest in a cheap 10 or 20 gallon tank (and some cheap plastic plants and decorations that can be easily sterilized so the fish don't stress being in an empty box) to move the fish into for ongoing observation, treatment if/as necessary, and holding for the next 80 days while you let the tank sit fallow and allow the ich to burn itself out. Otherwise you're literally just sitting on a ticking time bomb.

For every post made about "the only 20+ year old reef tanks don't QT and have parasites", there are at least 100 more posts from people who didn't QT and lost multiple fish as a direct result. All too often, in 10+ year old tanks. Maybe if one has the time, money and access to the ocean to recreate some of their methods, but failing that... is it really worth the ongoing risk? If you're not able or willing to do QT yourself, as @90gDreams said, consider buying pre-QT'd fish from now on, or you'll just wind up right back here again eventually, except it might be something worse like uronema.

While we're all willing to help as best we can here, Humble.Fish is going to be the single most authoritative source on fish diagnosis and treatment.

 

[thebookshark]

Yes, I will try to get a better photo today- and I definitely understand the benefits of a QT (I’ve also dealt with red bugs and monti-eating nudis in this tank) I am in a small apartment and really don’t have space right now. However, the clown is doing much better as of this morning- nearly all spots/affected areas have cleared and the clown is acting completely normal. I believe Brook responds to Ich-X (packaging says it kills protozoans) so I will keep up with the medicated baths and hope for the best.

FWIW I have access to a good microscope and an experienced biologist at work; if whatever it is returns I can potentially get a scraping for a definitive diagnosis.

 

[msporleder]

Brooklynella

Brooklynella hostilis (updated 6-9-2023) What You Need To Know: * This is most often seen with clownfish, but it can afflict other fish (usually in the gills) as well. When a clownfish has Brook, the skin will appear to be peeling or sloughing off. Which is actually excess white mucous coming...

humble.fish

Marine Velvet Disease

Marine Velvet Disease (Amyloodinium ocellatum) - Updated 6-9-2023 What You Need To Know: * Fast killing parasite capable of wiping out most of your fish in just a matter of days. Sometimes there are survivors, sometimes not. * Dips/baths which can provide temporary relief for velvet (in order...

humble.fish

Marine Ich

Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) - Updated 6-9-2023 What You Need To Know: * Fish parasite which is sometimes managed in a DT by utilizing a UV Sterilizer, Ozone, Diatom Filter, Oxydator, herbal remedies, enhanced nutrition, etc. etc. * Can be treated in a quarantine tank by using...

humble.fish

If the bumps look raised then it's probably ich but I can't tell if the face has slime-coat trouble or not. You can get more id opinions on humble.fish after you get good white-light pics.

 

[siege]

I completely get the small-space problem, truly. But QT only sounds a lot bigger and more complicated than it actually has to be. Even a basic 10-gallon, or honestly even a temporary setup in a plastic tote, with a heater, air stone, and simple filter with ambient/cheap light can be enough for observation and treatment if you wind up needing it. I know nobody loves hearing 'set up a QT' when space is tight, but it really can be a lot more minimal than the full traditional QT-room picture people often imagine.
That said, I'm glad the clown is looking better this morning. I just would not let the improvement after a bath convince you the problem is solved yet. If it comes back, I think your idea of doing a scraping and getting a real look under a microscope is actually one of the best next steps you could take, because that would tell you a lot more than us guessing from blue-light photos.

If you truly cannot make a hospital setup work right now, then at minimum I'd focus on getting white-light photos/video if symptoms return, keeping stress as low as possible, keeping nutrition strong, and being very cautious about any future additions. But if there is any way at all to make even a very simple temporary QT/hospital container happen, I do think that gives you the best odds and the most control.

While it won't solve/fix your problem, there are two things I, personally, would be trying right away if you handed me your system to care for going forward with the condition that the fish not be removed for treatment:

1. Add a UV clarifier. "This one simple trick..." all by itself can help reduce the load of free-swimming parasites in the water, and thus lighten ongoing infection pressure, and give the fishes immune system a chance to adapt. It turns out that while most mammals can only ever develop a resistance to most terrestrial parasites, it seems marine fish can develop actual, functional immunity to some marine parasites, including ich - at least according to some literature I've found: I don't know that there is broad consensus or not on that. Just make sure you mind you size it properly for your system, and that flow through it is slow enough to ensure parasite mortality, though its effectiveness on brook or velvet is likely to be much less than with ich.
   
   
2. Add cleaner organsisms like Neon Gobies and Peppermint Shrimp (which can help reduce load/pressure on the fish by consuming some of the external parasites), along with cryptic sponges, feather dusters, and anything else that filters its food from the water. These won't "cure" the fish any more than cleaning a wound heals it, but just like keeping a wound clean and disinfected, the cleaners may help speed/aid the natural healing process by minimizing the load the fishes immune system has to fight at any given moment.
   

Neither is any kind of guarantee, but they won't hurt (especially the UV, cleaner shrimp, and cryptic sponges and other filter feeders), and shrimp at least aren't terribly expensive, and usually fairly hardy (most "cleaner" varieties, anyway).

Really hoping this was a one-off irritation or something secondary and that the fish continues to improve.

 

[thebookshark]

Here are some pics with better lighting. Some spots today but still overall much better. About to do the Ich-X bath..

 

[thebookshark]

A few things to add:

Everything else in the tank is healthy and growing. I have a small (1.25”) crocea clam I added 2 weeks ago that’s doing great and has even maybe grown a little? My Pederson cleaner shrimp are apparently opposite sexes because one of them, presumably the female has eggs. My little colony of sexy shrimp regularly breeds, saw mothers releasing fry in the full moon(light) last week. Acros, LPS, NPS gorg all doing well. Other two fish are healthy, active and eating. Parameters below (tested today, about 30m ago). Test kits are all Salifert or Red Sea. I use AV Salinity.
Temp: 80
SG: 1.025
pH: 8.1
KH: 7.5-8 (dosing to raise a bit)
N03: ~2ppm
Ca: 560
Mg: 1350

I have done much scouring of the internet and looking at photos and in some places (towards the tail/rear half) it looks like ich but I think mostly it looks like brook as the slime coat seems affected, especially around her face/eyes.

 

[Steve Burton]

I need to break down my 20 gallon QT tank, you're welcome to borrow if you like. Tank, lid, light, heater, air pump,and HOB filter w/cycled media.

 

[90gDreams]

A few things to add:

Everything else in the tank is healthy and growing. I have a small (1.25”) crocea clam I added 2 weeks ago that’s doing great and has even maybe grown a little? My Pederson cleaner shrimp are apparently opposite sexes because one of them, presumably the female has eggs. My little colony of sexy shrimp regularly breeds, saw mothers releasing fry in the full moon(light) last week. Acros, LPS, NPS gorg all doing well. Other two fish are healthy, active and eating. Parameters below (tested today, about 30m ago). Test kits are all Salifert or Red Sea. I use AV Salinity.
Temp: 80
SG: 1.025
pH: 8.1
KH: 7.5-8 (dosing to raise a bit)
N03: ~2ppm
Ca: 560
Mg: 1350

I have done much scouring of the internet and looking at photos and in some places (towards the tail/rear half) it looks like ich but I think mostly it looks like brook as the slime coat seems affected, especially around her face/eyes.

That's great you are having good success with the corals and most everything else. All the parameters look great too.