Coral appearance

[Jeremey’s reef]

Hey there reefers, I have a quick question. How is that the same coral can look So different under certain lighting? I am looking to purchase some nirvana zoas but the ones that various people have to offer look nothing like the ones that caught my eye to begin with. These zoas pictured below are from coral shoppe they are beautiful but I’m not into paying $300 for 10 polyps

 

[bzb]

I’m a big fan of the ELI5 (Explain Like I’m Five) subreddit. Explaining things in simplistic terms is really difficult to do without giving incorrect information, and sometimes it really sparks my curiousity reading about things I never thought about. So... here’s my best attempt at ELI5.

Different color temperatures of lighting makes our eyes interpret that light different. It’s similar to the difference your room looks when you use “cool blue” bulbs versus the “warm glow” that looks more yellow.

There’s more going on with corals, of course. Much of it is due to the zooxanthellae and the their pigments that often determine the colors. Green and yellow are the most common, but mixed together with everything else, it tends to look brown under natural light.

Think about the rainbow: blue light scatters the most, which is much of the reason why the oceans and skies look blue. So on our tanks, you dump an excess of blue and purple so those penetrate further to allow the corals to absorb it, and reflect back the other colors.

 

[ActiveAngel]

It seems like you’re asking 2 different questions: how can corals look different under different lighting? And why don’t nirvana zoas that you see nowadays look the same as the ones you originally saw? The answers to these questions overlap, but are not precisely the same.

Firstly, many people attribute already-established names to their corals in order to sell them for more money. This can be both good and bad. It is worse when people try to make up their own individual names in order to increase the price. Coral variation names are there to help us communicate colors and patterns; and it does no good to make up your own names. The price comes from the physical attributes of the coral, not the name. On the other hand, they can also assign the wrong names to given variations simply to try and make more money off them. Which is another form of unethical behavior and could explain your circumstances.

And how can corals change under different lighting? Well, it can be how your eyes are interpreting colors. However, I would venture that it’s more likely that the coral is actually expressing their colors differently; and/or their associated algae’s are doing so. They can be doing so because new lighting puts off new wavelengths, so they want to specialize in a new algae that is already inside them. So they can inhibit/encourage the production of certain algae’s that will express a new color along with providing other beneficial effects to help them survive better in the new environment. That said, they could be doing this same behavior coincidentally with the lighting change, with the root cause for the change not being lighting at all. For example, it could be a specific nutrient influx, predation, breeding, or water temperature that causes the change (just to name a few).

In summary, it’s changing colors because it’s beneficial for it to do so. Like most/all creatures, It’s sole goals are to survive and reproduce. Hope this helps!

Assuming it is not a false name, it’s always possible for a coral to revert its coloration to the original pattern that you saw.

 

[civics14]

Simple - good camera, lots of blues to pop the florescent colors, and a filter to neutralize the blues in the pic. Most coral sales are done this way because it makes it more attractive and a lot of people really run predominantly blues in their tank.

I, for one, run a crisper white with tint of blue, so when I sell corals, I provide pictures in a more white lighting. That's just my 2 cents tho.

 

[civics14]

It is worse when people try to make up their own individual names in order to increase the price.

Hey.... I take offense to this, not in a angry way, but because it seems these days people always want a name. So, my shortcake variant, I gave it a silly name because that's just what the consumers want. I think it helps also though because people can trace it back to the original person it came from.

On the other hand, they can also assign the wrong names to given variations simply to try and make more money off them. Which is another form of unethical behavior and could explain your circumstances.

This really grinds my gear!!! I dealt with some local reefers (on this forum and FB) that wants to just use name brand corals based on how they look. There are some LFS that is guilty as well.

 

[Jeremey’s reef]

It seems like you’re asking 2 different questions: how can corals look different under different lighting? And why don’t nirvana zoas that you see nowadays look the same as the ones you originally saw? The answers to these questions overlap, but are not precisely the same.

Firstly, many people attribute already-established names to their corals in order to sell them for more money. This can be both good and bad. It is worse when people try to make up their own individual names in order to increase the price. Coral variation names are there to help us communicate colors and patterns; and it does no good to make up your own names. The price comes from the physical attributes of the coral, not the name. On the other hand, they can also assign the wrong names to given variations simply to try and make more money off them. Which is another form of unethical behavior and could explain your circumstances.

And how can corals change under different lighting? Well, it can be how your eyes are interpreting colors. However, I would venture that it’s more likely that the coral is actually expressing their colors differently; and/or their associated algae’s are doing so. They can be doing so because new lighting puts off new wavelengths, so they want to specialize in a new algae that is already inside them. So they can inhibit/encourage the production of certain algae’s that will express a new color along with providing other beneficial effects to help them survive better in the new environment. That said, they could be doing this same behavior coincidentally with the lighting change, with the root cause for the change not being lighting at all. For example, it could be a specific nutrient influx, predation, breeding, or water temperature that causes the change (just to name a few).

In summary, it’s changing colors because it’s beneficial for it to do so. Like most/all creatures, It’s sole goals are to survive and reproduce. Hope this helps!

Assuming it is not a false name, it’s always possible for a coral to revert its coloration to the original pattern that you saw.

Thanks I find this to be very helpful, and i hope I don’t run into too many situations were I experience false names in the near future. But I get it I have googled many zoas and On many occasions I find the same zoa with various names or differences in colors

 

[ActiveAngel]

Hey.... I take offense to this, not in a angry way, but because it seems these days people always want a name.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend anybody here specifically. What I’m referring to precisely would be if somebody buys one coral, then renames it so they can say it is rare and therefore charge a higher price. All this does is causes confusion in communication. Eagle Eye zoas will always have a specific meaning; similarly for any variety of shortcake acro, or any other of the common names.

For example, when WWC buys Tyree’s Dragon Skin Lepto and renamed it WWC Disco-ball Lepto, several years after Dragon Skin was established and used. They do this will full knowledge of its established name, often buying directly from the original supplier. But now they can call it rare (because they attribute a different name to it). And because you can only buy it from them, they mark up the price. Additionally, smaller suppliers will even change the names of their corals multiple times in order to re-sell the same frags to the same unsuspecting beginners.

This behavior is to what I was referring, and it grinds my gears. I don’t think you are guilty of it, V. But if you or anyone is, I’d hope that they feel guilty because the behavior is unethical as they are taking advantage of people for profit.

I fully support the creation of silly new names for different variants! I am against purchasing and renaming established variants for personal profit.

 

[civics14]

Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend anybody here specifically. What I’m referring to precisely would be if somebody buys one coral, then renames it so they can say it is rare and therefore charge a higher price. All this does is causes confusion in communication. Eagle Eye zoas will always have a specific meaning; similarly for any variety of shortcake acro, or any other of the common names.

For example, when WWC buys Tyree’s Dragon Skin Lepto and renamed it WWC Disco-ball Lepto, several years after Dragon Skin was established and used. They do this will full knowledge of its established name, often buying directly from the original supplier. But now they can call it rare (because they attribute a different name to it). And because you can only buy it from them, they mark up the price. Additionally, smaller suppliers will even change the names of their corals multiple times in order to re-sell the same frags to the same unsuspecting beginners.

This behavior is to what I was referring, and it grinds my gears. I don’t think you are guilty of it, V. But if you or anyone is, I’d hope that they feel guilty because the behavior is unethical as they are taking advantage of people for profit.

I fully support the creation of silly new names for different variants! I am against purchasing and renaming established variants for personal profit.

I agree on all points here.

 

[bzb]

However, I would venture that it’s more likely that the coral is actually expressing their colors differently; and/or their associated algae’s are doing so. They can be doing so because new lighting puts off new wavelengths, so they want to specialize in a new algae that is already inside them. So they can inhibit/encourage the production of certain algae’s that will express a new color along with providing other beneficial effects to help them survive better in the new environment. That said, they could be doing this same behavior coincidentally with the lighting change, with the root cause for the change not being lighting at all. For example, it could be a specific nutrient influx, predation, breeding, or water temperature that causes the change (just to name a few).

In summary, it’s changing colors because it’s beneficial for it to do so. Like most/all creatures, It’s sole goals are to survive and reproduce. Hope this helps!

Forgot about this piece, also great info. There's another color that can be expressed... when the zooxanthellae is expelled out of their system: white!

The crazy thing to me is that in the same lighting conditions and same tank, one frag can look entirely different from another from the same mother colony. As in, sitting right next to each other in a frag tank. I suspect this could be from a number of things, stress to the coral being one of them, or directional lighting from LEDs.

And another piece of the puzzle: nutrients in the system can affect the color significantly. While some folks have had success with ULN (Ultra Low Nutrient) systems, I found significant color changes in all my corals when I started dosing nitrates up to 2-3ppm.

 

[Jeremey’s reef]

Have you seen a positive impact

Forgot about this piece, also great info. There's another color that can be expressed... when the zooxanthellae is expelled out of their system: white!

The crazy thing to me is that in the same lighting conditions and same tank, one frag can look entirely different from another from the same mother colony. As in, sitting right next to each other in a frag tank. I suspect this could be from a number of things, stress to the coral being one of them, or directional lighting from LEDs.

And another piece of the puzzle: nutrients in the system can affect the color significantly. While some folks have had success with ULN (Ultra Low Nutrient) systems, I found significant color changes in all my corals when I started dosing nitrates up to 2-3ppm.

in growth rates when dosing nitrates?

 

[bzb]

For the softies, absolutely. They have exploded since the dosing. I was spot feeding Reef Roids before, but the dosing has not only brought out better color, the corals are certainly bigger.

The only exception is my zoas, which aren't really reproducing - at least, not at a noticeable rate. The ones that I knew the count of on a frag have not increased, at all, but many have gotten bigger.

For the SPS, difficult to tell if the rate has increased. They were already encrusting their plugs and rocks, and that's continued at about the same rate. The difference in SPS is coloration. Much deeper, vibrant colors, even when the whites kick on.

 

[Jeremey’s reef]

For the softies, absolutely. They have exploded since the dosing. I was spot feeding Reef Roids before, but the dosing has not only brought out better color, the corals are certainly bigger.

The only exception is my zoas, which aren't really reproducing - at least, not at a noticeable rate. The ones that I knew the count of on a frag have not increased, at all, but many have gotten bigger.

For the SPS, difficult to tell if the rate has increased. They were already encrusting their plugs and rocks, and that's continued at about the same rate. The difference in SPS is coloration. Much deeper, vibrant colors, even when the whites kick on.

I just might give this a try any particular product that you would recommend I use?

 

[bzb]

What are your nitrate and phosphate readings stable at? I was 0/0 undetectable with very little algae growth in my relatively new tank. I don't intend to continue dosing, I'm hoping that additional fish and a heavier feeding schedule will "naturally" get things stable over time. But I was unhappy with everyone commenting how washed out my corals were, so I felt I needed to do this to get these animals what they needed.

I went with potassium nitrate and monopotassium phosphate from Green Leaf:

Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) Aquarium Fertilizer - 1lb Bag

Shop Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) Aquarium Fertilizer (1lb Bag) for fertilizing your aquarium plants. Brand: Green Leaf Aquariums (GLA). Orders ship fast worldwide and get free shipping on orders $125.

greenleafaquariums.com

Got some of their cheap dosing bottles and added the RODI to it. To raise my nitrate by ~0.5ppm, it's 10mL of the stuff: 3.5tsp per 1000mL

Phosphates be careful dosing. I made this bottle far less concentrated, so 10mL of it raises my 90 gallons by ~0.2ppm: 1 tsp per 1000mL

Great calculator resource here:

James' Planted Tank - Dosing Calculator

www.theplantedtank.co.uk

 

[civics14]

I just might give this a try any particular product that you would recommend I use?

Or just feed more? Or can your tank can accommodate more fish?

The #1 question for me was how I was able to be so successful in my tank, the answer is stability. Unless you have a really rigid dosing program and never go on vacations or away for a prolong period of time, you're going to run into stability issues when you're adding chemicals.

Everyone is different, but a more natural approach without dosing is going to be best long term.

 

[Jeremey’s reef]

I have a 29 gallon with 2 clowns a wrasse and a zebra eel the eel will be gone away once he is sold I may have to bite the bullet and sell him to a LFS

 

[Jeremey’s reef]

What are your nitrate and phosphate readings stable at? I was 0/0 undetectable with very little algae growth in my relatively new tank. I don't intend to continue dosing, I'm hoping that additional fish and a heavier feeding schedule will "naturally" get things stable over time. But I was unhappy with everyone commenting how washed out my corals were, so I felt I needed to do this to get these animals what they needed.

I went with potassium nitrate and monopotassium phosphate from Green Leaf:

Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) Aquarium Fertilizer - 1lb Bag

Shop Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) Aquarium Fertilizer (1lb Bag) for fertilizing your aquarium plants. Brand: Green Leaf Aquariums (GLA). Orders ship fast worldwide and get free shipping on orders $125.

greenleafaquariums.com

Got some of their cheap dosing bottles and added the RODI to it. To raise my nitrate by ~0.5ppm, it's 10mL of the stuff: 3.5tsp per 1000mL

Phosphates be careful dosing. I made this bottle far less concentrated, so 10mL of it raises my 90 gallons by ~0.2ppm: 1 tsp per 1000mL

Great calculator resource here:

James' Planted Tank - Dosing Calculator

www.theplantedtank.co.uk

I can’t say I trust my API testing kit but my last test was about 2 weeks ago I have since done two water changes do to high Phosphate I can’t remember the nitrate number but it was on the low side I will test again Wednesday