Craving tangs

[Jeremey’s reef]

Will a Gem tang be a suitable tank mate for a small school of yellow tangs? I been advised to be cautious when mixing tangs but these two are by far my favorite and would love it if they could coexist. I also plan to house them with a moorish idol, emperor angelfish,and banded moray eel what are you guys thoughts on this combination and what would be an adequate tank size for such a bioload?

 

[qasimja]

thats a real expensive fish id be nervous the other tangs would go after it or vise versa lol

 

[ActiveAngel]

The general introductory rule with tangs, of which all can be aggressive towards each other, is to categorize them by their body shape. One of the more aggressive body shapes is the spade shape; and both yellow and gem tangs share this, indicating increased aggression. (My favorite tang is the Desjardini, also in this category)

But there are tricks to minimize tang aggression.
•Adding tangs at the same time; so that neither gets to establish a territory before a newcomer is added.
•Placing multiple handheld mirrors in the tank temporarily. Often, the tangs will try to attack their reflection, so this distracts them in a way that they won’t hurt themselves. Over weeks/months, gradually remove the mirrors one at a time.

I believe a 250g would be fine; provided it is the standard long (and not an overly tall tank). You wouldn’t be able to put any corals or clams in it because of the emperor angel. And you wouldn’t be able to do any shrimp, clams, crabs or inverts due to the eel. However, this eel wouldn’t mess with any of the fish, and they’re very peaceful. Otherwise, it would be a pretty beautiful tank!

 

[Jeremey’s reef]

thats a real expensive fish id be nervous the other tangs would go after it or vise versa lol

Thanks for the input

 

[Jeremey’s reef]

The general introductory rule with tangs, of which all can be aggressive towards each other, is to categorize them by their body shape. One of the more aggressive body shapes is the spade shape; and both yellow and gem tangs share this, indicating increased aggression. (My favorite tang is the Desjardini, also in this category)

But there are tricks to minimize tang aggression.
•Adding tangs at the same time; so that neither gets to establish a territory before a newcomer is added.
•Placing multiple handheld mirrors in the tank temporarily. Often, the tangs will try to attack their reflection, so this distracts them in a way that they won’t hurt themselves. Over weeks/months, gradually remove the mirrors one at a time.

I believe a 250g would be fine; provided it is the standard long (and not an overly tall tank). You wouldn’t be able to put any corals or clams in it because of the emperor angel. And you wouldn’t be able to do any shrimp, clams, crabs or inverts due to the eel. However, this eel wouldn’t mess with any of the fish, and they’re very peaceful. Otherwise, it would be a pretty beautiful tank!

I’ve read that adding an odd number of tangs at the same time is a pretty useful trick as well so maybe two yellow tangs and the Gem would work?

 

[ActiveAngel]

I’ve read that adding an odd number of tangs at the same time is a pretty useful trick as well so maybe two yellow tangs and the Gem would work?

I’ve heard that too! And while I have not seen any evidence to support it, nor understand why it would work; I also don’t think it would hurt. So go for it!

Personally, I don’t think tangs are counting each other... heck, they can’t even recognize that their own reflection isn’t a real fish. And if the odd/even factor did apply; adding a mirror would throw off the number as each fish would see/glimpse multiple reflections at different times depending on the proximity of other fish at the time they were nearby the mirrors. But once again; it doesn’t hurt.

 

[Jeremey’s reef]

I’ve heard that too! And while I have not seen any evidence to support it, nor understand why it would work; I also don’t think it would hurt. So go for it!

Personally, I don’t think tangs are counting each other... heck, they can’t even recognize that their own reflection isn’t a real fish. And if the odd/even factor did apply; adding a mirror would throw off the number as each fish would see/glimpse multiple reflections at different times depending on the proximity of other fish at the time they were nearby the mirrors. But once again; it doesn’t hurt.

 

[Jeremey’s reef]

I am definitely going for it

 

[Adam]

I would have a hard time putting a Gem in with one Yellow, let alone multiples. Yes their shape is part of the rule but it's the genus that's the most important which in turn leads to the shape.
There are 5 main genus's of Surgeon fish commonly for sale. Acanthurus, Ctenochaetus, Naso, Paracanthurus & Zebrasoma. Unless you have a tank that's 400 or more gallons, think eight feet or longer, I wouldn't recommend adding more than one from a genus. If you do you'll need to add them at the same time and keep them well fed and have multiple places you put nori. Gem & Yellow are both from Zebrasoma. Having 2 from the same genus could work but 4 in a 6' tank is just asking for trouble.

Remember this reefing rule too. The cheap thing will always win against the expensive thing.

 

[Jeremey’s reef]

I would have a hard time putting a Gem in with one Yellow, let alone multiples. Yes their shape is part of the rule but it's the genus that's the most important which in turn leads to the shape.
There are 5 main genus's of Surgeon fish commonly for sale. Acanthurus, Ctenochaetus, Naso, Paracanthurus & Zebrasoma. Unless you have a tank that's 400 or more gallons, think eight feet or longer, I wouldn't recommend adding more than one from a genus. If you do you'll need to add them at the same time and keep them well fed and have multiple places you put nori. Gem & Yellow are both from Zebrasoma. Having 2 from the same genus could work but 4 in a 6' tank is just asking for trouble.

Remember this reefing rule too. The cheap thing will always win against the expensive thing.

Wow that rule has proven true on more then one occasion for me thanks for the insight

 

[jcook54]

That's a great plan and a 250g would be adequate but that's a pretty big system that requires a lot of planning, time and money. It's one heck of a goal, for sure, but I've always found systems that large to be cost prohibitive to keep up with. Of course I was more focused on corals and it might be easier with a fish focused system.

 

[ActiveAngel]

Agreed! The shape is just an introductory rule for tangs; as always, the truth is deeper for the more you are willing to dive in...

The ‘at least 250g’ response for your requested minimum gallon size; the truth is that horizontal swimming room is much more important than vertical in this case. I completely agree with having at least 8’ length, and I’d want 30’ or more width with rockwork in the center rather than a wall. This will create a divide to help keep the tangs apart.

Unless you have a tank that's 400 or more gallons, think eight feet or longer

I think the 400g+ suggestion would be a safe bet, and it’s what I would do if not just go for a 600g since I’m already going big and it is a Gem tang (plus the Moorish Idol)... the problem with bigger tanks is that it’s harder to catch the fish for any emergency QT; because even if you’re experienced, if you can’t get the fish quickly, then you have to continuously keep walking around the tank to get to the other side as the fish easily swims 2 feet out of reach.

 

[Adam]

Agreed! The shape is just an introductory rule for tangs; as always, the truth is deeper for the more you are willing to dive in...

The ‘at least 250g’ response for your requested minimum gallon size; the truth is that horizontal swimming room is much more important than vertical in this case. I completely agree with having at least 8’ length, and I’d want 30’ or more width with rockwork in the center rather than a wall. This will create a divide to help keep the tangs apart.



I think the 400g+ suggestion would be a safe bet, and it’s what I would do if not just go for a 600g since I’m already going big and it is a Gem tang... the problem with bigger tanks is that it’s harder to catch the fish for any emergency QT; because even if you’re experienced, if you can’t get the fish quickly, then you have to continuously keep walking around the tank to get to the other side as the fish easily swims 2 feet out of reach.

After my move in October I'm planning an 8'x42-48"x26-28" main display. It's going to take some time to get up and running because the basement will need to be finished 1st. My current tank will get moved over and be free standing down there as I work on the project. EVERYTHING that goes into the new system will go through a VERY strict QT process before introduction, even what's in the current one. The coral will be broke free and QT'd again and the rock will all be nuked. Damn vermetid snails and RTA. The 220 I have now will sterilized and become a predator tank with some cool Angels & Triggers. With that process in place the need to pull a fish will hopefully be minimal. Even then I'm not sure I'd put Yellow Tangs in there. They can be such Asshats. There will be a Gem or two though

 

[ActiveAngel]

After my move in October I'm planning an 8'x42-48"x26-28" main display. It's going to take some time to get up and running because the basement will need to be finished 1st. My current tank will get moved over and be free standing down there as I work on the project. EVERYTHING that goes into the new system will go through a VERY strict QT process before introduction, even what's in the current one. The coral will be broke free and QT'd again and the rock will all be nuked. Damn vermetid snails and RTA. The 220 I have now will sterilized and become a predator tank with some cool Angels & Triggers. With that process in place the need to pull a fish will hopefully be minimal. Even then I'm not sure I'd put Yellow Tangs in there. They can be such Asshats. There will be a Gem or two though

Hahaha! And Awesome plan! We haven’t met yet since I moved down here, but I’m sure we will soon. And I look forward to seeing it. You and I definitely share some major viewpoints.

The biggest part of moving all my corals and fish 1000 miles is that I wanted to nuke all my rock and start from dry. I inspect meticulously and use various other tanks as temporary QTs until I can set up a proper one. So I applaud you going through the effort! My next tank goal will be about 96”x42”x30”(height) peninsula on a high stand as I don’t like crouching over to look inside tanks.

Meanwhile, my current tank is operating as a sort of 2 year QT for that next tank for all fish and coral.

 

[Adam]

Hahaha! And Awesome plan! We haven’t met yet since I moved down here, but I’m sure we will soon. And I look forward to seeing it. You and I definitely share some major viewpoints.

The biggest part of moving all my corals and fish 1000 miles is that I wanted to nuke all my rock and start from dry. I inspect meticulously and use various other tanks as temporary QTs until I can set up a proper one. So I applaud you going through the effort! My next tank goal will be about 96”x42”x30”(height) peninsula on a high stand as I don’t like crouching over to look inside tanks.

Meanwhile, my current tank is operating as a sort of 2 year QT for that next tank for all fish and coral.

I'm in reverse lol. My current 220 is 30" tall and set fairly high. It's quite a PITA to work in. That's why I'm going to go shorter on the tank a little and use a stand that's a little lower than my current one. Since this will also be used for propagation and my wife is short I'm going to shoot for about 5' at the top of the tank instead of the 6ish it is now. I will have multiple QT's set up as well. Actually once I'm done with the bulk of the QT'ing for the fish on my system I'm thinking about keeping a couple of the QT tanks up and running to offer a QT service for local club members at a reasonable fee.

Fortunately my move is only about 18 miles. But I'm still not looking forward to moving the system. If you want to come by and see what I've got now shoot me a PM.

*Edit* Oh, the new one will be a peninsula as well!

 

[ActiveAngel]

I'm in reverse lol. My current 220 is 30" tall and set fairly high. It's quite a PITA to work in. That's why I'm going to go shorter on the tank a little and use a stand that's a little lower than my current one. Since this will also be used for propagation and my wife is short I'm going to shoot for about 5' at the top of the tank instead of the 6ish it is now. I will have multiple QT's set up as well. Actually once I'm done with the bulk of the QT'ing for the fish on my system I'm thinking about keeping a couple of the QT tanks up and running to offer a QT service for local club members at a reasonable fee.

Fortunately my move is only about 18 miles. But I'm still not looking forward to moving the system. If you want to come by and see what I've got now shoot me a PM.

*Edit* Oh, the new one will be a peninsula as well!

Oh yeah? My wife is short as well (4’11”) which is why I don’t want it too high up. But just enough for my eye-line to be barely under the water surface. But it’s good to hear your input! I’ll definitely stop by sometime. Personally, I don’t mind working on ladders as I’ve done it for 20 years.

And great idea about the QT services. I also considered doing that once I’m no longer renting.

 

[thragger]

Wow, a gem tang, good luck! If you're not going to add them at the same time I'd definitely add the gem tang first so that you minimize your potential losses