Cyanide Poisoining

[jmaneyapanda]

Have you considered flukes? They are common on angels that have been rceently imported. Flukes can kill rather quicly. They can cause an appearance of grey blotchy areas, cause the fish to "shudder", can cause labored breathing, bloating, and other things. Do you see cloudy eyes, or similar. An easy way to see if you have flukes is to do a freshwater dip. They will fall of like little falkes of dandruff.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Barbara;247334 wrote: Panda, the female is still alive, and in fact, seems stable except that she didn't eat tonight. Her breathing is labored. Should I attempt the dip? I'm afraid it will be stressful for her, but I want to do what's best for her.

even if you do it for 10-15 seconds, you'll see flukes fall off, if thats it. Flukes will kill and spread quickly.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Barbara;247350 wrote: Okay, I'll do it. She's in the frag tank, so she'll be easy to net. I don't think 10-15 seconds will hurt her so I'm going to go for it. She does have little thingys hanging off her eyes, so I thought it might be flukes, but I also thought it might be ich.

On the eyes sounds just like flukes. Ideally you want to treat with prazipro. It can actually be used in the reef tank. It only has supposed issues with featherdusters/fanworms, but doesnt bother anything else. Make sure you dont rule out anything more serious (such as velvet). I look for flukes seriously now, but the other diseases are stiull present.

 

[FutureInterest]

I didn't really pay attention to the angel as she was in the dark and I wouldn't have suspected flukes anyways, just ich or velvet. I hope she makes it, she's a beauty.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Did you see something like this? If so, they are flukes. I cant say for sure if thats what did all the damage in your tank, but flukes WILL kill fish, and they are very overlooked.

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[xyzpdq0121]

Ich will fall off in a FW dip depending on the length of the dip.

 

[budsreef]

Barbara, I'm really sorry you are having to deal with all of this. In the midst of all the problems you mention the Yellow Coris Wrasse in the frag tank. Do you have sand in there for it to sleep in? If not you may be putting undue stress on it.

 

[budsreef]

I'm sure you don't want sand in the frag tank, but he really should have it to sleep in and to hide in if/when stressed. With the problems you are already dealing with I'm not sure what the right couse of action to take with him would be. Maybe the other more experienced guys will chime in and over some suggestions.

 

[FutureInterest]

He seems to be doing alright without sand lol. I would recommend putting him in the display. I've got one in mine and he's a great addition. Colorful lots of movement and benefitial to boot.

Anyways, its safe to say its not velvet and was just a really bad ich outbreak at this point. I imagine if it was velvet the body count would be much higher by now.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Barbara;247729 wrote: Major signs of recovery this morning. Blue hippo's skin is already starting to heal. He looks like a teen with a bad case of acne!

The flames are out and about, more prominent than ever in the front of the tank. Female still showing some signs of ich; male only one or two spots in total. Everyone in the 90 is healthy and swimming about.

Not so good in the frag tank. The female angel fish still swimming in her strange pattern; 20-30 degree upturn, tail twitching/swishing, and she's hovering under a frag rack in the darkest corner of the tank. Physical signs are good, but her behavior is quite peculiar. Yellow coris up and about. Guess he didn't want to risk me reaching in there and picking him up off the aquarium floor this morning. He was up and about before the lights came on!

Wait, what type of angels? Another issue to cosnider is that all Genicanthus angels are deeper water, and do routinely suffer from swim bladder damage at collection. The "cocked" swimming posture may be a dead ringer for this. It doesnt explain the other issues, but it is worth considering.

 

[FutureInterest]

I guess this will be a true test of that UV and other treatments you've done. We'll know within a week or so when the next ich cycle hits.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Barbara;247744 wrote: Swallow tail angels. Previous signs:

Male angel died, unexpectedly and with no prior warning signs, about 2-3 days after arrival.
Female wasn't eating well the first day, but then began to eat well on the second day. Third day she was okay. Fourth day she laid on the bottom of the tank, gasping for air, and I thought she was going to die. It looked like she was bloated in the belly on that day. That night I did a fw dip for 30 seconds, and some whitish stuff sluffed off, along with two small brown dots that looked a little like red flatworms except smaller. Now today she's swimming funny.

Yep, genicanthus. It may or nnot be that, but when they collect these guys, they bneed to decompress them properly. Many divers "pin" them to releive the bubble from the swim bladder, but more conscientious divers actually decompress them. They should be observed for 1 week plus after collection. I ahte to say it, but that is what it sounds like to me. I could be way wrong though.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

Panda, would the standard swim blatter treatment of Epsom salts help cure this?

 

[jmaneyapanda]

If it is swim baldder damage from poor decompression, tehre is nothing you can do, really. The poor ability to maintain posture is what leads me to believe this, but I am just guessing.

 

[FutureInterest]

It didn't have posture or apparent swim bladder issues before today though. Perhaps the bloating from yesterday and the odd posture today is indicative of an internal infection of sorts that may or may not include the swim bladder.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

They dont. A fish with a damaged swim bladder from imporper decompression will swim poorly days after the fact. Dont ask me why, but it just happens that way.

I personally dont subscribe to the nefarious "internal infection", whetehr it be bacterial, fungal, or otherwise. I know they are possible, and do periodically occur, but I will blame parasites and poor collection a million times more often than internal pathogens.

 

[FutureInterest]

This isn't just days after the fact. It could be weeks for all we know.

Anyways, I'm not saying that bladder damage didn't occur but simply that infection is what appears to be happening here and I think its common amongst injured/sick fish. Its rather clear that infection can occur at any point and that a fish that is stressed from parasites, poor collection, or water quality, or what have you is more likely to succumb to infection and die. For example, from my understanding most fish don't die directly from the ich parasite itself but rather secondary bacterial infections caused by a weakening of the immune system and greater opportunity for infection due to the open wounds. I'm no expert but that's my understanding of it.